Likewise for the other side. As much as I would love to spend all year correctly answering the question "Who gets to make the decisions about your body?" with "Typically, the Law" and wondering why it is that a human zygote, while a viable potential child, is not considered to be alive for practical purposes until it develops a brain and a spine, it really does wear as thin.

personally i would never kill a soul i couldnt ever i wouldnt be able to live with myself knowing that.

wouldn't you? how do you know? ever had an abortion? I go with Beckinator here. because of my past i can fairly safely say i would personally not have an abortion unless necsessary (i.e. ectopic pregnancy). Besides theres pro-life and theres being stupid and selfish.

Unless I am reading something incorrectly, you are saying that having morality revolving more strongly around the existence of the life of others than her own convenience is selfish. Am I in error?

You know. Some people value human life that does not yet have a national insurance number. They will not take the lives of such human beings.

Seriously, it really is highly saddening when you make it a cliche to automatically question whether or not a woman would refuse to kill someone else on the basis of whether or not she wants to raise a child just now.

I think abortion is wrong. It is just like murder. If you were the fetus would you want to be killed? I don't think so. If your mother chose to have an abortion you wouldn't be here reading this. If you were raped I can understand having an abortion, BUT if you were just messing around it is not right.

Because if you've been put in the situation it's a lot harder to say no I'm not doing this a lot harder than you think. and no I haven't had one before, nor do I plan too.
But I can't tell the future....One day in the future my views could be a lot different on this. I'm pro-life, but I never know what kind of situation it might be, I mean if my health was in danger and the baby or I or both would not live, I would not put my life in jeopardy or my child's. Or if I knew my child would be ill from the day he/she was born, I would not put my child in this world just to have my child ripped away from me and the rest of the world harshly...

If you were a fetus, and was killed, you wouldn't know the difference. Little kids don't start remembering things until what like 3 or 4? It's a woman's choice and accidents happen. Teenagers and adults make mistakes, but I don't think it's right to punish them by forcing them to carry a child they DO NOT want. Why bring a child in this world that you can't take care of? Adoption is another option, but why carry a child for 9 months only to probably be ridiculed by school peers? For the girls who have the courage to do so, I admire them but I'm not one of the girls who can do that.

Pro-choice.
However, I still have trouble coming to terms with it, and would really prefer never having to be put through that. But it is the woman's choice. Did anyone hear about the big...RU486 (or whatever) debate raging over here in Oz? It turned into a huge religious debacle. It was like Tony Abbott was trying to take over our bodies...hmm.
I don't like the idea of denying someone the chance...
The above person said it very well. If it can't be taken care of, don't bring it into the world.

I don't know about you, but I think I would prefer abortion to infanticide. It's not killing a child, it's killing a fetus. If you want to ban abortion then go and ban menstruation, and ejaculation. All that potential going to waste.

Eh.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=7][COLOR=purple] abortion is a difficult subject.. on one hand it is killing a foetus that will grow into a person but if you get pregnant at a young age its going to ruin your life and what if u get pregnant thru rape cold u really keep that baby?

10000 sperm going nowhere collectively have less potential than a zygote. Masturbation hardly changes the issue.

I just think it's dumb everyone says no abortion but until you have been put into the situation, you can't make that decision.

*Starts humming a certain Monty Python song* Every sperm is sacred........

I think it is dumb how you imply that a self-serving attitude is what it is going to take for them to change their minds.

If you were a fetus conceived by rape, would you want to be killed? I don't think so.

Then again, a lot of people think the child it grows up to be would hate its own existence.

I am against abortion,because i feel if someone can be responsible enough to have sex and know that they can get pregnant, then they should be responsible if they do get pregnant. I don't think it is fair that someone can sleep with someone and if they get pregnant they can say oh well i don't want it so kill it. The baby never did anything wrong and deserves to live it's life, and not be taken away just because a woman doen't wanna take responsibility for her own actions. I believe giving the baby up for adoption is a way better decision,because it allows the child to live and have a family that truly does want to love him/her. Abortion seems to be the thing women wanna do now, because they can sleep around and everytime they get pregnant they can have the baby removed, and this to me is sad. Think of all the women out there who try so hard to have a baby and can't, why not give the baby up so one of those women can have the baby they have been trying so hard for. I got pregnant at the age of 17 and abortion never crossed my mind because killing a baby that is innocent would feel terrible. I wouldn't say abortion is a fabulous thing unless you find killing a growing baby to be fabulous. Robb was right to change it because that word is very offensive with abortion

So you believe that the child should suffer because of someone elses actions???
Just because you have sex doesn't mean you are responsible enough to have a baby. Adoption can be a good thing, minus the fact that most of those babies end up in foster homes where they more than likely won't get the life they deserve.

I am not saying abortion is right( I am pro -life), but for some people it's the right thing to do.

No there are people who aren't responsibe enough to care for a child, but then again they should be responsible enough if they plan on having sex to use birth control or protection or not have sex at all, and not have abortion as their back up plan if they get pregnant. People who get pregnant and can't care for this baby can always give the baby to a family who would be happy to adopt. The child may go through foster homes and may have a rough life, but how do you know the child will if you don't even give the child a chance at life? The child may grow up to have a wonderful life. I don't believe a child should suffer but i also don't believe a child should have it's life taken away. I don't see adoption as being a good thing,because it is taking someone's life. If abortion is okay then should murder be okay too? I don't think so. I can sit here and say everything i want about abortion and my opinion but it is their decision and there is nothing we can do about it.

"As a former fetus, I oppose abortion."

Oh har har, how imaginative. Steal that yourself did you?

Got it off a bumper sticker ..... hence the quotation marks ....

Yes, it shows that you got it from such an indept source........
You want to take part in this conversation that's all well and good, but participate, don't use bumper stickers.

How about "don't piss me off I'm running out of places to hide the bodies." Ooh, now I sound all scary.
*waves arms scarily*

Pfft, cheap-ass quotes are the new way to disguising this 'discussion' as something other than a neverending cycle of one side going "We're right! Praise the Lord!" and others going "No you're not, we're right! You fucking suck, you close-minded morons. How dare you disagree with us, spawn of a patriarchal organisation! Patriarch! PATRIARCH!".

"It is because I still believe so strongly in the right of a woman to protect her body that I now oppose abortion. That right must begin when her body begins, and it must be hers no matter where she lives--even if she lives in her mother's womb. The same holds true for her brother" - Frederica Matthewes-Green, "Abortion: Women's Rights... And Wrongs" (http://feministsforlife.org/FFL_topics/after/rtnwrfmg.htm)

There are a good few other things I could quote from this, it is great like that. It even comes with a couple of statistics, like ectopic pregnancy sextupling between 1970 and 1987.
General gist of it is: "I am a feminist, I thought abortion was great, then facts related to it got in my way."

Shows that there's more than just one side to everything. Nothing's ever just black and white, it's all just shades of grey.

Why the hell din't she just take a morning after pill? Seriously that's abusing the right to have an abortion. It's supposed to be a last resort kind of thing, not a method on contraception.

Why? Why should a woman's right to choose end after a certain number of choices?

Either you think killing fetuses is wrong or you don't...

Far be it for me to put words in Christi's mouth (or should that be keyboard?) but I have a feeling she meant it more in the same sense I did, then say "You have X amount of abortions, after that fuck off."

Why exactly does a woman have right in the first place? Considering there are things you can do to your body, and yet may not. Considering there are things you can do to someone's else and yet may not. Considering how the Geneva Convention forbid most of the equivalent acts against those who are considered alive.

Half of the women that get abortions admit that they did not even bother taking precautions. How do they not know what results from inserting stick A into slot B, they have been taught this. Why is it that so many people are allowed to behave in a way that even you agree is irresponsible? How do you justify that last year, there was one abortion for every three females in the US?

What difference does your exclusive definition of life make to make the act fine? Do you have a justification for than act other than saying "didn't want it"? Sure they didn't, they wanted it so little that they left the chance of it happening practically maximal.

When ectopic pregnancy comes into it a termination may be the only way to save the mothers life...

Ectopic pregnancies are miscarriages waiting to happen, and termination of one simply brings forward an imminent death to prevent an untimely second. Undeniably a neccessity.

(Hypothetically)Ok so abortion is made illegal - should there be exceptions?

Of course. 11 year olds raped by someone who become pregnant, ectopic, and other such things. Of course you cannot write a law that covers all eventualities, but you could write one that allows for exceptions to be made.

That being said over 60% of America wants abortion law left the way it is, read that in some report from about 2 years ago. Majority rules, it remains. As for England I'm not so sure. Ireland, well we haven't had a referendum on it yet....wish we would, damn backwards country of mine.

surely anyone raped that falls pregnant should have the option of a termination.

Up until recently in Ireland they did not, in fact officially they still do not, that doesn't stop people travelling to the UK to get them though. That is the result of the catholic church strangling my country for numerous years.

Well Irish history is very confusing... I have to admit! I meant in general though. Should abortion be illegal with what exceptions

As an aside how is it confusing? England invades, stays for close to 900 years, leaves, Nothern Ireland gets formed and causes nothing but problems, Ireland the the UK get along fine and try to get the idiots in Northern Ireland to behave. That's about the short of it.

I am personally against abortion, I do not like it, however I would not stop someone from getting one if they felt it was the right thing for them.

Rape, statutory rape, and inevitable miscarriages (especially those risking the mothers' lives). The problem with the first excpetion is that it would have to be proven very quickly. From what I know and understand, false allegations of this crime appear to overwhelm the true ones as it is.

Cases where babies will be born healthy at the cost of the mothers' life I am not too certain about, I have not taken any time to learn about what state a woman would be in for this to occur.
Furthermore, I am uncertain about cases where abortions of these would kill the mother anyway. I think however that this one is a matter of euthanasia.

well surely with that much blurred areas its easier then for it to be legal?
We studied it in history a-level and got into the politics and al the different laws and it got confusing

I am personally against it. But if someone wants to go get an abortion I cannot stop them, I just have to let them do it. I believe it is wrong and you are basically killing another humans life. But who am I to say what other people should do with their life? I cannot. So if someone wants to get one that is their decision and they have to live with the decision they made.

If I were to decide all exceptions immediately, it would indeed be easier for the things about which I am uncertain to be legal. However, I do not, and therefore will take advantage of the ability to not have any stance until I have learned more.

If abortion were to be made illegal, it would still happen. Just not as safe. More people would just go get it done from a "doctor" in an alley in Mexico or somewhere else. Of course you should use protection and you shouldn't use abortion as birth control, which has been said. But what happens when you are raped? If your father rapes you? That's called incest, and your baby is more than 3/4 likely to have some sort of disease or mental disability. Do you just bring a child into the world that you can't/won't care for?

Why?

Making an exception for abortion soley in the case of rape is ridiculous. If you're anti-abortion then presumably it's because you believe in ideas such as foetuses having a right to life. How can you undermine this right purely based on the conception?

An accident resulting in a child being born is one thing, a child born as a result of violence, and everytime you look at the child you remember that......

What a great thing to see in your child. Think about what you are saying Kirsty.

I appriciate what you're saying, but I still maintain what I said. Accidents happen: if you're saying that something conceived through a drunken shag, torn condom, etc, should not be aborted, then I don't see why conception through rape makes abortion acceptable.

At the end of the day I just don't think that the actions of the parents should have anything to do with whether or not the child gets to live. I'm not actually condemning abortion here; all I'm saying is in the case of abortion I don't think it's right to change the goalposts to suit the circumstances.

As far as I'm concerned the person can get an abortion whenever the hell they want. Not my place to tell them. If it was a drunken shag, and they realise it and get an abortion I don't see a problem. They were drunk, made a mistake, and took responsibility for it in their own way. If the nervous system isn't formed it's not a living, thinking, being as far as I'm concerned.

Whoa in a rape one person did not want the action to be taken and in most cases thats the woman why should she put her body through serious stress for something she didnt even want?

Ah, I'm sorry. I agree with abortion for in the case of rape for pretty much the reason you said, I was just trying to highlight that the stance that "abortion should be allowed in case of rape, but not in other cases" could perhaps be considered somewhat hypocritical.

I really ought to have read the thread fully. x(



I'm not saying that she should, I actually believe that abortion would be the right thing. What I want is a reason why some people who are pro-life think that it's okay to have an abortion after rape. Doesn't it contradict a lot that they've said to validate their arguments against abortion?

Hell people who are pro life should shut their mouths and wait until they've been put in that position before they judge and we all know it. Sorry I just really believe that.