That is ridiculous! Rape and incest and health are the only reasons for an abortion.

Actually health can be used as a reason, as physical health is not the only healthy to consider. How about mental health of the 13 year old who is pregnant, how about health both mental and physical of the baby who is born to someone who is hardly a child herself?

These are just some of the questions that people seriously need to considering before just saying "ABORTION IS AGAINST GOD" etc.

Abortion is necessary in these situations and these situations ONLY-
rape, incest, and the physical AND mental health of the person carrying the child, and if the child is going to have a life long illness/disease.

That's your opinion when it is. Not everyone shares that opinion though.

i think abortion is only ok, when it's within something like 15 days (or close to it) after the woman is pregnant, cuz after 15 days, that's when movement begins, and then i think it's crewl,

How convenient that pregnancy tests don't work until approximately 14 days after the woman becomes pregnant.

How compassionate of you to give women an entire 24 hours to acquire an abortion!

15 days there is no movement, it's still a large ball of cells, with no neural pathways of any descriptions, it is not even technically "alive". Most pregnancy tests require 15-21 days after conception to detect the hormonal changes.

And lastly it is spelt cruel.

You can not feel the baby move at 15 days! Trust me, been there done that. You just can't. You can feel it around 3 months at the earliest. And even then it's rather faint, and not the major moving and kicking you feel at around 5 or 6 months. But jeez, it is not cruel if you're health is in danger (mentally or physically) or if the baby is created under rape or incest causes. Because do tell me, would you have a baby if someone raped you? Would you have that child?
Sorry I getting carried away. But please check the facts before you say them Sorry, got a little carried away there.

Source of that information?
Movement doesn't normally begin until the second trimester, which is the 4th month of pregnancy.

My friend she said her baby started moving at 4 1/2 months, I wouldn't know though

I was pretty sure that is was around that time though because 15 days, nothing is really formed very well yet.

For those of you wondering the following is what a 15 day old embryo looks like.



As you can see it is a ball of cells with no clearly defined cells for brain, muscle, heart, anything.

Not only will the teens be running out of state they will be turning to backalley abortion clinics where cleanliness and safety isn't top priority. Obviously the legislators didn't think of all the deaths they are going to have on hand after passing these laws. Honestly, if a teen wants to have an abortion, they are going to do it. Legally and safetly, or not.

So? Hard drugs are illegal and people still take them. It wouldn't surprise me if people not only used the same needle repeatedly, but shared it. People are going to take drugs, legally or not.

Abortion is South Dakota illegal but many teens will do that anyways.EDIT:and other people will. Many will have illegal abortions or try to do the abortions themselves (I don't even want to think about that)

Error detected in data stream.......


Abortion is illegal? No it's not, no wait you're right, no you're wrong.

You need to say where abortion is illegal.....

Eactly. I mean, I just found out I'm officially 2 1/2 months along and it's still only about an inch and a half long. Though it's now fairly developed in the fact that it has arms/legs etc...but at 15 days...no way. At 4 weeks along it has really just developed a head and eye. But at less than a week there is pretty much nothing there.

Yes, but nowhere else ARE they LEGAL. You can't compare abortion and drugs because in most places around North Dakota they are legal and so people can go get them. I'm just saying teens are going to turn to backalley clinics because they have no choice. It's just wrong to compare drug use and abortions.

I think its wrong to take away abortion purely for the fact that back alley dangerous abortions take place and that is not good. I still maintain personal choice I always will I dont agree with it now but i'm smart enough to realise I may not feel that way when in a situation where it may be an option. Its like saying you'd know how ud react if your house caught alight - you simpy don't know how you will respond until it happens.

That much I agree with. When I first found out I was pregnant and there was all this drama with Alex and I and his mother...I was so freaking depressed. All I did was cry and eat. One night I told Alex that I had always been against abortion but now I knew why people got them sometimes. I said I just wanted the baby out of me and to move on with my life. Alex is/was VERY pro-life and he was to the point of saying he'd pay for it. Thankfully I came to my senses and realized that my baby deserves to live no matter what...however, I can understand why people do it. Even if I don't really agree with it in the end that much.

And one day, perhaps abortion will not either. Then I shall return with exactly the same point and you shall still be without any real refutation.

Well that is bollocks, is it not? I did it right there. How does the fact that one is currently legal somewhere in the world and the other no longer invalidate my comparison? Answers of a quality less than or equal to "It just is" are not appreciated.

I'm just saying they had a choice. They chose to commit an act that had a potentially damaging effect, much like a junkie chose to take drugs, resulting in addiction and wrecked health.

Kindly explain how a morality debate can be won by stating supposed facts of law. I request you refrain from using the words "backwards" or "forwards", because I do not see how our "moving forwards" has been wholly good.

I would have a baby if someone raped me. What did the baby do to be killed? NOTHING. And plus, abortion can cause you to not be able to have babies again. And it can cause serious mental problems. Maybe abortion isn't the right way to go for many people.

Abortion can cause sterility, yes, in a very very very small case. With most abortions being chemically induced in the first month or two there is no physical damage per say, though it can take a few months for your body to get back into it's natural rhythm. But then again just being on the pill does that too.

Also can you really say what you would do if you were pregnant after being raped? Most people would have the common sense to get the morning after pill for a start.

You have the baby after you were raped and keep it? WELL you have problems, For one, most people are already tramatized from the fact that they had been raped, and would take the morning after pill. For two, the baby could have the physical characteristics and the mental characteristics (when it is older) of it's father, and then you would have to everyday look into the face of the man who raped you, what kind of sense is that?

She has problems because she wouldn't have an abortion?

You're as bad as the anti-choicers.

I really don't like these type of statements. Why? You have NO idea what you would do if you were raped. What if it was incest related? What if someone in your family raped you and you got pregnant? First of all, you can't answer these questions because you haven't been in the situation and have no earthly idea what you would do. Secondly, to keep a baby who would more than likely be born with several mental and physical handicaps to me seems a bit cruel. Sure, there are adoptive families who would love that child. Sure, you could love that child. BUT who's to say that the child won't grow up and say, "Why didn't she just kill me..."
I think of the ridicule I went through during my years in school. Not normal taunting, but some really hardcore stuff. I can't BEGIN to imagine what a child like that would have to go through growing up in this day and age. I personally don't know if I would put a child through that just so they could live. Then again, I'd probably get the morning after pill. Typically after you've been raped and go to the hospital (which you are supposed to do right away) they suggest for you to do that, I know this...I've sadly been down that road before.

Normally I hate this kind of thing on the net, as it just looks a bit childish to me, but considering the circumstances...

*Hug*

Just for you I'll change it to, "typically" if that's better for you
And thanks for the hug.

I imagine some suicides thought that at times. What of it?

People get severely bullied for the most pointless of reasons, such as just being there. Saying you would not bring a child into the world for fear of bullying... I am not sure what to make of that.

You could give birth to any child and still have it grow to be a rapist. Imagine having someone like that come from a loving family, a child and family that you made. Highly unpleasant, no?

At the end of the day we are all juding on situations that most of us have never and most porbably will never experiance. Trying to tell people what you would do is silly because you don't know how ever well you know yourself. How react won't be the same as the person sitting next to you or you next door neighbour. Parents have the responisibility to do whats right for their child from the day its concieved. It depends on what you think is best, not what everyone else thinks.

That's not what I said. You're taking it out of the context I put it in. The point of what I was saying was not about the bullying, the bullying was just an afterthought and something to think about after I stated the point:



That was the point. The other part was me thinking about some of the pain that child would have to go through, that wasn't saying that because the child would be picked on you should have an abortion...just to try and clear that up with you since you "aren't sure what to make of that." Personally, I don't agree with abortion in most cases, however in the case of an incestuous rape (as I stated) I could understand more just because of the handicaps that child would be living with. The choice there is either to have an abortion and keep your child from what could be a life of great misery and torment, or let it lead said life. Abortion, in my opinion, should be a choice that is made for the well being of a child rather than the well being of the mother, and also should be only an option in situations such as rape.

I think I'm tired of this statement:

Well guess what, it didn't ask to live either. The "child" didn't ask anything because as of the time of the conception it isn't even really a living/breathing thing yet. The brain, spinal chord, and heart only begin growing near the end of your third week. (Source: "I'm Pregnant! magazine). I agree with the statement "Everything happens for a reason" to an extent, but I don't know if I can really believe that God (if that is the religion you follow) put a girl getting raped (in some cases by a family member), getting pregnant, and having the child into his "master plan". He also gave us free will, and it's not right that because the free will of a rapist caused him to rape a young girl...SHE should have to live with the mistakes HE made. If she chooses to keep the baby, fine. But I don't think that she should just have the option of abortion taken away from her.

I guess I'll stop rambling and put my opinion into something that makes more sense:
In my own life I am pro-life, however when it comes to the world...I'm pro-choice. To take away a woman's, or anyone's, freedom of choice is against everything America is supposed to stand for (I speak of the US only because it is where I live). I think I read something like this in a quote a while back, "I don't agree with your opinion, but I'll fight for your right to have it." Or something like that. I don't agree with abortion, but I agree that women should have the right to make that decision for themselves.





Edit:
And one of the best things I've heard anyone say on here:

Well thank you. But at the end of the day that is the point in parenting, to do the best you can for that child. And sometimes you have to question what is best. For instance if I was to get pregnant now I would have to question whether allowing the child to come into the world is right after all what sort of life could I give it when I'm still in education, I have no financial backing nowhere to live, does a child deserve to suffer for my mistake? Personally I don't think that a child does deserve that. I've been through alot surrounding pregnancy and each time is just makes me think more and more, what would have been best? Though I went through and still do go through alot of pain at losing my child naturally sometimes I think maybe that was best. And before any of you say to me "why didnt you take the morning after pill" its pointless due to medical reasons I cannot take it.

I don't envy anyone who is put in the position where abortion has to be considered, I don't because I've jsut seen a friend go through the pain of questioning herself and putting herself through something that she didn't want to do but had to because she felt it was best for her child. When I spoke to her, at great length about it she said to me "why did I do it? Because I had to be selfless, I had to put the baby first. I can't afford to bring up a child now I can't afford to give my child everything I want to. Sometimes love isn't enough."

Now if only more teenage girls got that there would be more abortions, true, but there would be less gymslip mothers relying on the taxes of others to live.

I am a firm believer in God and religion and stuff but i also believe that when the mother is raped or incest occurs or her health is in danger then abortion should be permitted for her... but if your 16 and fooling around with your boyfriend all the time and you get pregnant well thats your fault.

Oh, so you're one of those "pro-lifers" who's not interested in the life of the fetus, but in punishing women for "spreading their legs"...

i think having a child with mental or physical disabbilites isn't always such a horrible thing. i'm not saying that i would like to have a child with mental disabilites but ive seen many parents say that there child makes them happy. i know it must be very difficult to raise a child like that but sometimes the child may bring even more joy into the family. Of course it would be very expensive and if you can't raise the child yourslf put it up for doption. if you were raped and you don't want to have the chile because it will remind you of the incident, then put it up for adoption.

abortion isn't the only choice you have if you can't keep the baby.

That is only true if the two related people have the same defective gene. That is, the only reason why the probability of defect is increased is because if one of the two has it, the other is very likely to have it as well. Also, most of the time, genetically defective children miscarry.

Recessive Homozygousity is the cause of these defects. If genetics is what made incest wrong, then sex between two people with blonde hair, blue eyes, or some other noticeable trait attributed to recessive alleles would be wrong, as that is what causes such defects.

Again I spent a long time talking to her about adoption. But she feels the same way about it as I do. I would love to say if I got pregnant tomorrow that I could give the baby up for adoption but I can't honestly say that I could. Infact my own admission is im too selfish to do give a baby up but I think I may well be too selfish to go for an abortion - although I accept my feelings may be different should I be in the situation. I think for her though she knew unless she had the abortion she'd keep it and then intend to give it up for adoption but never do it. "How can I go through nine months of feeling that child grow inside me, feel it kick, feel it move, how can I go to the ultrasounds and see it and then give it up like none of that ever mattered to me" - Her words, and I must say although I think adoption is a fantastic thing that I agree with her I don't think I could do it. But for conversations sake - I admire you for what you will do you are a better person than I.

then wouldn't that not really be what is necessarily best for the child?

i didn't mean my other reply to be directed to anyone specifically, sorry.

Its easy to say you'll do whats best when it comes to do it - its something else all together. Much harder to do than to say. Especially for some.

I think abortions are good but some people take advantage of them having lots when they should learn about contraception. But i can understand abortions as one offs for mistakes and espically for people that have been sexually abuse and raped etc.. Then you can understand

I'm not disputing that. Thats why here now its not as easy as it was to get an abortion on the NHS they make you go through counselling to make sure that the girl/woman involved makes the right decision for her child. However it cannot be said that its the same for other abortion clinics.

I know people in my school who have had 12 abortions. I think that's rediculous, because you'd think they would learn after one time or two but now it's just a normal thing. And I know that many people in my school have had at least one abortion (because i go to an all girls school). It's just so scary to see how it's such a normal thing for girls in high school. I guess it's just how i was brought up (like all ways going to a private Catholic school), that affects my reasoning?.

1) 12 abortions to one girl? Only way I can see that happening is if they have swallowed the bullshit from catholic schools that condoms are bad and don't work. Maybe if you had decent sex education it wouldn't work.

2) 1 abortion is nothing that unusual in countries where they are legal.

You know people who have has 12 abortions? Honestly, that's insane.

12 abortion? is she just full ov it or dus she really get her rat out?

dutchess69 if you wish to take part in discussions here I must insist you use proper English. You want to type like that elsewhere in this forum it's your business, in here though you need to use the odd dictionary.

wow 12 abortions... never heard of something like that..

To get one's rat out.....well that's a phrase I haven't heard before.
*cringe*

That is what you call a moron. But like Robb said, decent sex education would go a long way in preventing that.

That jsut seems so far fetched... its either so far fetched that its true or totally made up.

yes, i realize that it's crazy but sadly it's true. She just thinks that it's not a big deal i guess.


"2) 1 abortion is nothing that unusual in countries where they are legal. "
(i don't know how to use the box thing to quote so i just put quotation marks)
I guess that's true but it's such great number of people who have abortions that it surprises me.