That's what I got from it too, I'm afraid. Sex isn't a crime, it's the expression of love between two people.

Perhaps I also misinterpreted it, please enlighten me, oh wise Xx3bunniex3X.

im sorry... what i meant to say was you pay for your actions and the baby shouldn't be punished for that... i obviously know sex isnt a crime its a about an expression of love and im sorry if i offended you

And yet you think that a baby should be used as punishment.

Isn't being used as punishment punishing the baby? How would you feel if you were told that the only purpose of your life is to punish your mother for having sex?

nvm i cant explain this w/o getting yelled at

No, you cannot explain it because your arguement holds water about as well as a paper tissue.

No, you cannot explain it because your arguement holds water about as well as a paper tissue. A child is not a punishment, having to raise a child just because you became pregnant is not humane, and that is what I find most amusing. The pro-life fanatics seem to forget that at the first month there is no nervous system, just a ball of cells, at two months the nervous system is preparing to grow. There is nothing there classed as alive bar in the simplest way, just like your skin cells are alive. They seem more concerned with the "life" of a ball of cells rather then the life of the person who may have the child, and which could destroy their lives.

If you do some research that actually ISN'T pro-life propaganda, you may find this out. I mean actual biology, pure un-biased fact not swinging one way or the other. Then once you have considered engaging those grey cells, THEN make up your mind.

For those of you who say "killing ANY fetus is wrong"... then what about babies who clearly have a handicap? Some prescriptions the mother takes can cause birth defects, such as the acne drug Accutane. You would rather a child be born and then die, rather than prematurely killing it?

In any case, it doesn't matter if you oppose abortion. It may be your own person belief which you are entitled to, however it won't stop the pregnant women out there from getting them anyways. Deal with your own life, and stop trying to interfere in others. It is the mother's choice, not a stranger's.

Well, what are the oppinions of Partial-Birth Abortion?

Adding on to what you're saying... if you knew your baby was going to have Harlequin Syndrome (look it up.. actually DON'T, you'll die from seeing it) would it be wrong to abort it?

I was thinking about how... pro-lifers fight so hard for fetuses to be born to parents who don't want them, then the children grow up unwanted in broken homes, are more likely to be involved in crime (ie, murder in an extreme example) because of their bad family life... and then the same people who fought so hard for them to be born fight for them to get the death penalty.

A little bit ironic, dontcha think?

(Note: I'm not saying that all unwanted children turn out bad, before anyone accuses me of doing so.)

you know what i'd like to say something to everyone. this may not get through to the people that are against abortions because you think its the right thing to do...sure it may have been there fault, but if there not ready for the responsibilty and are willing to make the decision dont you think thats the responsible thing to do. you think girls think its all fine and dandy to have an abortion but its not, and youve never had one have you?? and if you have im sure you wouldnt be against it. women should have a right to do what they believe and in think is right without being screamed at and having signs waved in there faces, let alone even cameras. think about it this way. think of something you really believe in. think of something youve always wanted to do. what if you had millions of people screaming at you telling you it was the wrong the to do and it was one of the most hardest decisions youve ever had to make. and if your going to say "i wouldnt care id go ahead and do it if i really believed so strongly" because thats exactally what girls are doing. and i know you wouldnt stop standing up for something because a bunch of people were waving crap in your face. you dont even know how it feels...and if your going to add up the cons such as killing something, or being selfish, theres always a pro side too. its not your decision so you shouldnt be discriminizing people against what they think is right. its pretty much like racism...people do make mistakes, and we learn from our mistakes. abortions would be a most emotional and mental abusing pain that i dont think anyone else should have there say. they should either be supporting or not saying anything at all..if you believe in something you will do it. if its the resonsible thing to do, you will do it. when you cut someone down on a decision theyve made, thats like taking away their self-respect. im sure this wont get through to most of you because your too busy disagreeing. but you know inside. just face the facts...its harder than you know, because you dont. theres alot more then just "killing something".....think, it could actually be saving it. if your going to have a life of pain, and confusion for your entire life which would probably lead you down the very wrong road, im sure you would rather not see the world at all....well thank you..please read this more and more until you understand it. because i know it makes more sense then anything.

Wow, for a n00b with only 6 posts that was amazing. You have earned my respect, which is hard to do.

i consider abortion murder but if the mother doesnt think she can sopport the baby i think it is 100% her distion but i still think it should be illegal sorry if that affened anyone

How can "I think it is 100% her decision"

and

"it should be illegal"

be in the same sentence?

They can't.
Anyway, I'm going to say the same thing I've been saying. I'm pro choice. It's a woman's decision about what she does to it. If the government makes abortions illegial, that doesn't mean people will stop having them. They're revert back to using more dangerous methods, like coathangers, which will endanger two lives. Or they'll travel somewhere that they can get abortion.
During the first month or so, it is not a baby. It is a fetus. This is basic things I learned in Science class when I was 11! I mean, honestly people, do some actual non-pro life research for once.

It's not a baby, scientifically, during any part of the nine months of pregnancy. Though some of them like to think a fertilized egg is a baby.



OMG LOOK AT THE CUTE LICKLE BABY.

I love it when they post pictures of fetuses and say "how could you think of killing something as sweet, cute, and innocent as this?" Am I supposed to have an emotional reaction to a picture of a conglomeration of cells that slightly resembles an alien?

i think that abortion should not be allowed .. it's still a living thing regardless if it's only cells .. it still has a right to live .. i don't mean to offend anyone .. if the mother can't support her child .. it's her choice, but she also could have the baby and put it up for adoption .. wouldn't that be better than killing it?

First off, that was kind of hard to read.

Secondly, look up murder before you start claiming that abortion is murder.

By that definition you are a murderer yourself. Cold, cough, flu, they are all living the same way a bunch of cells is, and you kill them when you take medicine.

Okay, if you don't want to have a baby, you could:

A: Carry the baby that YOU DON'T WANT for 9 months just because some Bible-bashing tree-hugging "pro-lifers" want the organism inside of you to live, then give up the baby that they forced you to have, OR

B: Abort it. It is your choice. Not some Senate or the Judicial System.

This is bothering me that people want to force someone to do something that they CLEARLY don't want to do. You are, like dearmaterialista said, using a baby as a form of burden on someone who probably made one bad decision.

Robb, are you implying that people should research and not reply with vague bullshit that they've been brainwashed into believing? YOu can't be serious! Oh the insanity, that actually makes sense.

I just realised that I've been saying pretty much the same things over and over and over on this thread. Hmmm. Maybe I should start getting angry...okay angrier.

Oh and I looked up Harliquin Syndrome, complete with pictures. I thank you for the warning dearmaterialista, and regret not following it.

"Tree-hugging" is usually used to bash liberals... I think "fetus-hugging" would be more appropriate, in this case.

Ah, thanks for the correction.

You're absolutely right though, in regards to your post, btw!

I don't think pro-life people use the baby as "a form of burden on someone who made a mistake." A baby shouldn't be punishment for having sex, and I don't think anyone believes that. I mean honestly think of the absurdity of a baby being a punishment. That's not even sensible.The main reason most pro-life people are against abortion is because they believe life starts at conception. And if life starts at conception, and killing a human life is murder...abortion must be murder. Obviously, a lot of you disagree with that statement. But the argument of the pro-life person is valid and logical, because if both premises (life starts at conception & terminating a human life is murder) are true..the conclusion that abortion is murder is inevitable. Of course, not everyone believes life starts at conception, and that's the basic argument. Christians, of course, believe that life starts at conception, because the Bible states that the Lord knew you from the time you were conceived & had a plan for you. That's why Christians believe the baby shouldn't be aborted, not because they want you to serve time for your sin. That's ridiculous.

There is nothing to believe or not to believe. It is scientific fact that for the first I think it was 4 months or so; what the mother is carrying is just a blob of cells and not living. There is no interperitation, no room for logical argument. It is plain old scientific fact.

So are you saying that pro-lifers should be able to force to-be mothers [couldn't think of the word..] to have a baby that they don't want? That they should be able to force a baby upon someone? Regardless whether or not they keep it, they should not have the power to enforce the mother to have a baby.

The mother probably couldn't deal with the emotional stress of having a child if she would like to abort it. She probably also may not have the money or the medical care she would need to carry the baby to term. So it would be a burden to her.

When people are against abortions in all circumstances, it's because they think it's murder. But when they say things like, "abortion is ok only in the case of rape. if they CHOSE to have sex, they'd better pay for it," it shows that their stance is not about protecting human life, but about punishing women for making choices that they disagree with.

And that is what it comes down to. If a girl that lives a fast-paced life is forced to have a child, it would become ultimatly a danger to the health of the child, regardless of whether or not she would give the baby up.

So YAY lets force children onto people because it is FUN!

No.

That's not even close to what I said.

Perhaps you would like to clarify what you meant then?

What I meant was that no one, pro-life or pro-choice, intends for a pregnancy to be a form of punishment. Perhaps, I misunderstood her post, but what I got out of it was that persons who are pro-life want young girls/ unprepared women to go through pregnancy in order to pay for their mistakes. Feel free to correct me if I misinterpeted your post.

i do not believe in abortion. i agree that it is just like murder. the only time i could even try to understand it is if you are raped, or if your life is in danger. besides, even if you are raped, you should go to a hospital right away to prevent becoming pregnate. if you get pregnate and you dont want to be, tough. grow up. be responsible. you made the baby so i feel no remorse what so ever for you.

^Go the hospital right away to prevent becoming pregnant? As in take a day after pill that will terminate the potential life form? In other words, kill it...abort it. Do you understand your own point of view?

I'm on your side. I believe abortion is murder. But your argument isn't very well thought out. I mean, if you believe someone has the right to terminate a life by means of a day after pill, why should they not be able to abort the child?

She's reffering to a morning after pill. It is Different from an abortion. A morning after pill will prevent sperm from reaching an egg by producing mucus around it and then rejecting it by not allowing it to implant, keep a fertilized egg from being implanted, or to prevent an egg from being released. That is in no way an abortion. You cant kill what isnt alive, and this is different from an abortion, as it was never implanted in the first place. A morning after pill is not an abortion. Do you understand what you're saying?

Actually, I guess in this instance I don't understand. In class, we were taught that the morning after pill terminated the baby. So yeah, my apologies. It looks like I'd been misinformed.

Misinformed? No you were lied to. Bit of a difference. I really worry about the so called "education" you seem to be getting......

As you probably heard, Sandra Day O'Connor just resigned from the Supreme Court. This is an extremely important time for our senators to hear from us. They need to know that we are counting on them to stand up to President Bush and protect our rights -- because with a moderate like O'Connor stepping down and a far-right like Bush making the nomination, well, the stakes couldn't be higher. The Terri Schiavo tragedy showed us all just how far these people are willing to go.

MoveOn PAC has already started an emergency petition, and we're looking to get 250,000 signatures and comments to the Senate before Tuesday -- which is when rumor has it Bush will announce his nomination.

I hope you can take a minute to join me in signing this petition, so our senators know that, in what might be the fight of our lives, we need them to do what it takes to protect our rights.

http://www.moveonpac.org/

I'm rather frightened that Roe Vs Wade might be overthrown.

^ I had to look that up.
I'm still baffled as to why people can make laws regarding another's life. It makes no sence.

I fear for the future of the human race. If we aren't trying to blow each other up we're making choices that affect the rest of other peoples' lives and forcing others to do the same while twisting and witholding the truth. Yay!

Scary isn't it?

"the land of the free"

meaning your [religious, especially] opinions shouldn't infringe on others rights..

Yes but that would mean not enforcing religious views down our throats, can have that now can we?

What?! But what I believe is the only opinion that anyone can ever have. So anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong. WRONG. How is that being narrow-minded?! If you think I'm being narrow-minded, then you're being narrow-minded!!!

Yes, because we should all have the same beliefs. Duh! We can't be individuals, that would mess everything up!

I wouldn't have an abortion just because I got pregnant from having sex with a guy, but I would if I was raped. I would rather see someone have an abortion than have a drug addicted baby. It should be left up the woman.

Oh this argument AGAIN! Wow people's ingenuity astounds me!
*falls to the ground in shock*

Im not really for or againist abortion. If u want an abortion be my guest go right ahead no one can stop you. If u dont want an abortion then dont have one. I think its your own personal opinion and no one elses business if u do or dont have an abortion. Say a teenager gets pregnant and they outlawed abortion..What if this teenager was desperate to get rid of this embryo..what if that person took it on her self which means she tried to kill the baby herself or maybe even kill herself.. Would suicide rates go up?