Full Version: Abortion
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If the condom rips you get a MORNING AFTER PILL and then you don't even have to deal with pregnancy.
QUOTE (Sweetnsour200890 @ Apr 27 2005, 05:17 PM)
if the condom rips than there is adoption
There is also abortion.
Thank god for that.
Everyones like oh just go have an abortion. Its not that easy...for most people its going to be a hard and tramatic time what ever they decide to do, abortion is no different. However, it is different for everyone hence all the different views and decisions made. Its not easy.
QUOTE (Sweetnsour200890 @ Apr 27 2005, 05:17 PM)
if the condom rips than there is adoption
What happens then if the woman is unaware that the condom ripped?
Should she then be forced to carry the child to term because of a mere accident?
Why should anyone have the right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do to her body?
And what makes anyone think that we'd be better off without pro-abortion laws is beyond me.
It will still happen just as much as ever, but it will go underground and simply cause more deaths.
Although I'm sure that there are people out there who believe that those women who do have abortions deserve death themselves.
And they call themselves pro-life. Haha. Irony bites.
i feel that abortion should be allowed in certain situations. if a female is raped than why should she have that baby? i know some might say put it up for adoption. yea well what about this girls life? 9 months isn't very short. to have to go through birth that could really harm her health for something she couldn't prevent. that just isn't fair. there are so many kids waiting to be adopted. if the guy raped her there is a great chance there is going to be something mentally wrong with the child. and what if she is raped by her father. she has a future. if she is still in school should she just skip a year to have this child that could possibly come out deformed? education is so important these days. without it, it is very hard to make a living. they say a lot of teen pregnancies could result to death to either the mother, the child, or both. the female simply isn't developed to have a teenager. it wasn't her choice to have sex. she was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. how would you like to know you were only born because your father raped your mother. that your mother didn't really want you. you just happened. i know i wouldn't want to live knowing that. i believe everything happens for a reason. if the child isn't born than it simply wasn't meant to be.
this is an article i wrote in my creative writing class it got published in our local newspaper pleaseread!!!{its about abortion}
Without a chance
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born? Slaves may never have been freed, and segregation may have never ended. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to do positive, important things in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, i may not be in the school with my fellow classmates of a diffrent race.
I feel that women who choose to terminate the life of an unborn child do not give that child a chance to make a diffrance and be important in someones life. Think of all the things you and people you know have accomplished and may accomp;ish in the futur. Think of the lives you have touched and the people who have touched your life. If your mother or theirs, had choosen not to have you, what would the world be like?
Women have an option to abortion. If a women makes the difficult choice to let someone else raise her child, great things could happen, lives could be touched and the world could be changed for the better. This is why i say ADOPTION not ABORTION
Written by: April M Curry
Without a chance
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born? Slaves may never have been freed, and segregation may have never ended. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to do positive, important things in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, i may not be in the school with my fellow classmates of a diffrent race.
I feel that women who choose to terminate the life of an unborn child do not give that child a chance to make a diffrance and be important in someones life. Think of all the things you and people you know have accomplished and may accomp;ish in the futur. Think of the lives you have touched and the people who have touched your life. If your mother or theirs, had choosen not to have you, what would the world be like?
Women have an option to abortion. If a women makes the difficult choice to let someone else raise her child, great things could happen, lives could be touched and the world could be changed for the better. This is why i say ADOPTION not ABORTION
Written by: April M Curry
Thats really biased and very American but we wont get into that.
Why do you not show the other side?
If hitler had been aborted? lived would have been saved. If certain people hadnt have been born maybe slavery would not have existed quite like it did. Your argument was very flawed and this is all im going to say. I await others shreading it peice by peice.
Why do you not show the other side?
If hitler had been aborted? lived would have been saved. If certain people hadnt have been born maybe slavery would not have existed quite like it did. Your argument was very flawed and this is all im going to say. I await others shreading it peice by peice.
What if the mother to be is a 14 year old child? What if the person cannot afford to have the child? Why put the child into the already overcrowded and stressed orphanage systems? Why add another mouth to the planet that cannot support all of us at this stage? Why put someone through 9 months of suffering? Why put them through the trauma of giving up the child?
QUOTE (lextownbabygurl @ Apr 29 2005, 05:24 PM)
this is an article i wrote in my creative writing class it got published in our local newspaper pleaseread!!!{its about abortion}
Without a chance
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born? Slaves may never have been freed, and segregation may have never ended. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to do positive, important things in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, i may not be in the school with my fellow classmates of a diffrent race.
I feel that women who choose to terminate the life of an unborn child do not give that child a chance to make a diffrance and be important in someones life. Think of all the things you and people you know have accomplished and may accomp;ish in the futur. Think of the lives you have touched and the people who have touched your life. If your mother or theirs, had choosen not to have you, what would the world be like?
Women have an option to abortion. If a women makes the difficult choice to let someone else raise her child, great things could happen, lives could be touched and the world could be changed for the better. This is why i say ADOPTION not ABORTION
Written by: April M Curry
Without a chance
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born? Slaves may never have been freed, and segregation may have never ended. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to do positive, important things in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, i may not be in the school with my fellow classmates of a diffrent race.
I feel that women who choose to terminate the life of an unborn child do not give that child a chance to make a diffrance and be important in someones life. Think of all the things you and people you know have accomplished and may accomp;ish in the futur. Think of the lives you have touched and the people who have touched your life. If your mother or theirs, had choosen not to have you, what would the world be like?
Women have an option to abortion. If a women makes the difficult choice to let someone else raise her child, great things could happen, lives could be touched and the world could be changed for the better. This is why i say ADOPTION not ABORTION
Written by: April M Curry
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein were never born? Six million Jews and their descendents may still be alive, and we may not be in a war right now. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to kill millions of people in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, millions of innocent, living people may not have been killed.
Eh?
I don't believe for half a second that such a thing could ever have been published in a reputable newspaper.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4500245.stm
That's what happens when you start blocking abortions.......at this stage all people I know in the US are begining to consider moving. Tells you what a great country it has become.
That's what happens when you start blocking abortions.......at this stage all people I know in the US are begining to consider moving. Tells you what a great country it has become.
Too young to make that kind of decision? What about being too young to have a bloody child. At thirteen years old, the child is not(that's what she is) able to care for and raise another child. Oh and just so you know, teenage births are very, very dangerous; there are more likely to be complications and death. Ok so some of you who have had children at a young age had no problems, then great for you.
I do believe if you look through history books you will find that the amounts of death in childbrith is phenomally high. Yeah, okay so some of it's because there is better medical equipment, but most of it is because people had children at 15 or so.
I do believe if you look through history books you will find that the amounts of death in childbrith is phenomally high. Yeah, okay so some of it's because there is better medical equipment, but most of it is because people had children at 15 or so.
QUOTE (lextownbabygurl @ Apr 29 2005, 04:24 PM)
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born?
What about contraception? That condom might be preventing the conception of of a couple of cells that will become the next Einstein. It's not given a chance either.
Good point! And we all know its not SAFE to not use contraception.
QUOTE (Master0 @ Apr 30 2005, 09:57 AM)
QUOTE (lextownbabygurl @ Apr 29 2005, 04:24 PM)
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born?
What about contraception? That condom might be preventing the conception of of a couple of cells that will become the next Einstein. It's not given a chance either.
that is true also i didnt think about that
QUOTE (kittenJanine @ Apr 29 2005, 04:30 PM)
Thats really biased and very American but we wont get into that.
Why do you not show the other side?
If hitler had been aborted? lived would have been saved. If certain people hadnt have been born maybe slavery would not have existed quite like it did. Your argument was very flawed and this is all im going to say. I await others shreading it peice by peice.
Why do you not show the other side?
If hitler had been aborted? lived would have been saved. If certain people hadnt have been born maybe slavery would not have existed quite like it did. Your argument was very flawed and this is all im going to say. I await others shreading it peice by peice.
QUOTE (Robb @ Apr 29 2005, 05:03 PM)
What if the mother to be is a 14 year old child? What if the person cannot afford to have the child? Why put the child into the already overcrowded and stressed orphanage systems? Why add another mouth to the planet that cannot support all of us at this stage? Why put someone through 9 months of suffering? Why put them through the trauma of giving up the child?
QUOTE (dear materialista @ Apr 29 2005, 07:07 PM)
QUOTE (lextownbabygurl @ Apr 29 2005, 05:24 PM)
this is an article i wrote in my creative writing class it got published in our local newspaper pleaseread!!!{its about abortion}
Without a chance
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born? Slaves may never have been freed, and segregation may have never ended. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to do positive, important things in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, i may not be in the school with my fellow classmates of a diffrent race.
I feel that women who choose to terminate the life of an unborn child do not give that child a chance to make a diffrance and be important in someones life. Think of all the things you and people you know have accomplished and may accomp;ish in the futur. Think of the lives you have touched and the people who have touched your life. If your mother or theirs, had choosen not to have you, what would the world be like?
Women have an option to abortion. If a women makes the difficult choice to let someone else raise her child, great things could happen, lives could be touched and the world could be changed for the better. This is why i say ADOPTION not ABORTION
Written by: April M Curry
Without a chance
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Abraham Lincoln or Martian Luther King were never born? Slaves may never have been freed, and segregation may have never ended. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to do positive, important things in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, i may not be in the school with my fellow classmates of a diffrent race.
I feel that women who choose to terminate the life of an unborn child do not give that child a chance to make a diffrance and be important in someones life. Think of all the things you and people you know have accomplished and may accomp;ish in the futur. Think of the lives you have touched and the people who have touched your life. If your mother or theirs, had choosen not to have you, what would the world be like?
Women have an option to abortion. If a women makes the difficult choice to let someone else raise her child, great things could happen, lives could be touched and the world could be changed for the better. This is why i say ADOPTION not ABORTION
Written by: April M Curry
Could you imagine what our world would be like if people like Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein were never born? Six million Jews and their descendents may still be alive, and we may not be in a war right now. These are just examples of people who mey have never had a chance to kill millions of people in their lives. If the mothers of such people had chosen to terminate thier pregnancies, millions of innocent, living people may not have been killed.
Eh?
I don't believe for half a second that such a thing could ever have been published in a reputable newspaper.
i never thought about these things sorry and it was published in my local newspaper in febuary!!!!
Well, now you know. There are two sides to it, and it isn't as simple as Right or Wrong. Please try to see that.
im against abortion for any reasons except medical.
Alot of people say they are for abortion if a person is raped ...... i have a question for you people who support this
"What did the Baby inside of the person do?"
If a teen gets pregnsnt wanna kno the great aboutthe ol US of A adoption. Give the baby a chance at life!~
What if the kidds the next bill gates, michael jordan, or Abraham Lincoln?
******************************************************
> If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who
> were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had
syphilis,
> would you recommend that she have an abortion?
if you said yes to this then you just killed Beethoven
Alot of people say they are for abortion if a person is raped ...... i have a question for you people who support this
"What did the Baby inside of the person do?"
If a teen gets pregnsnt wanna kno the great aboutthe ol US of A adoption. Give the baby a chance at life!~
What if the kidds the next bill gates, michael jordan, or Abraham Lincoln?
******************************************************
> If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who
> were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had
syphilis,
> would you recommend that she have an abortion?
if you said yes to this then you just killed Beethoven
Well, the first thing I'd do is tell her to ge a cure for the old syphilis!! It's not that hard. Then get grommits(or whatever they're called)for the deaf children. Then I'd tell her to use protection next time. Condoms do work. Yes they do. They're 98% effective.
And BravesBabyGirl, if you read over the posts you will see that someone used the exact same argument as you, using different names though(Einstein).
You can't lost yourself in what-ifs, what-if the child grew up to be a mass murderer? But that's getting into the nature-nurture debate.
And BravesBabyGirl, if you read over the posts you will see that someone used the exact same argument as you, using different names though(Einstein).
You can't lost yourself in what-ifs, what-if the child grew up to be a mass murderer? But that's getting into the nature-nurture debate.
"What did the Baby inside of the person do?"
What did the person whom the baby is inside of do?
Are you saying that the rights of a zygote the size of a grain of rice are more important than the rights of a full grown woman with dreams, feelings, aspirations, a family, a job, and friends, who is already going through a very traumatic experience? That is so sick.
What did the person whom the baby is inside of do?
Are you saying that the rights of a zygote the size of a grain of rice are more important than the rights of a full grown woman with dreams, feelings, aspirations, a family, a job, and friends, who is already going through a very traumatic experience? That is so sick.
Yup with you there dear materialista. In answer to your question as to what did the mother do? Probably had unprotected sex. It's down to both a man and a woman do remember to use a condom. And as for those who have been brainwashed to think that condoms don't work, they do just so you know! And they protect against STIs.
If someone isn't trusted to have control over their own body, then how can they be trusted to look after a child?And YES, I know that it isn't always a disaster, but it is enough times.
If someone isn't trusted to have control over their own body, then how can they be trusted to look after a child?And YES, I know that it isn't always a disaster, but it is enough times.
QUOTE
In answer to your question as to what did the mother do?
In her example, the woman was raped. So, she did nothing.
abortion is murder! i think unless u were raped u shouldnt get an abortion! You shouldnt be off doing things if ur not ready for the consequences! if anything if ur not ready to handle a baby have it then give it up for adoption.
thats my opinion on abortion
omg that is sooooooooooooooooooo sad! it really makes u think bout what ir doing! i wouldnt of ever had abortion anyway but i think that this was a really good way of showing how mad abortion could be!
thats my opinion on abortion
QUOTE (I babygirl I @ Sep 26 2004, 05:46 PM)
Yay! I have been waiting forever for this kind of post, I would of did it just didn't know if I could. I think I have put my option on this subject before I will do it again.!
Okay now, Let’s take a look at the definitions of murder and abortion.
Murder-
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Abortion-
Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus.
These two definitions may sound different, but as you read into them, they begin to show signs of similarities.
Let’s take a look at the differences first of all.
1. Murder is unlawful, and abortion is lawful.
2. Murder is outside of the womb, Abortion is inside of the womb.
Now let us look at the similarities
1. They both involve killing another human being.
2. They are both premeditated.
Looking at the differences, my goal is to change number one, and number two, it shouldn’t matter where anyone is! If I lived in a hole, would it matter if someone killed me there instead of at an office building? No! It isn’t any different here.
Now let us look at the similarities. They both involve killing another human being! Some would say that the embryo isn’t a human being yet. I don’t buy it. It breathes and thinks. That is good enough for me. Also, the abortion is completely premeditated. They plan out the abortion very clearly down to the minute it will happen.
After looking at those facts, I believe that abortion is murder after you break it down.
Now let’s look at the less judicial part of it. The ethics.
Some teenagers may say, “I can’t handle the responsibility or it wasn’t my fault.”
To that, I say bull! First of all, you shouldn’t having been having sex out of wedlock, second of all, if you are, take birth control. Do not ruin a young baby's life just because you are selfish!
Second of all, the lawmakers say that it reduces the population. Put the babies up for adoption! Put them with a loving family! Don't be a vampire and steal their life, be a life giver!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
*NOTE*: THIS IS NOT FOR THE WEAK AT STOMACH :*NOTE*
Just read...
Dear Mommy, I am in Heaven now, sitting on Jesus' lap. He loves me and cries with me; for my heart has been broken. I so wanted to be your little girl. I don't quite understand what has happened. I was so excited when I began realizing my existance. I was in a dark, yet comfortable place. I saw I had fingers and toes. I was pretty far along in my developing, yet not near ready to leave my surroundings. I spent most of my time thinking or sleeping. Even from my earliest days, I felt a special bonding between you and me. Sometimes I heard you crying and I cried with you. Sometimes you would yell or scream, then cry. I heard Daddy yelling back. I was sad, and hoped you would be better soon. I wondered why you cried so much. One day you cried almost all of the day. I hurt for you. I couldn't imagine why you were so unhappy. That same day, the most horrible thing happened. A very mean monster came into that warm, comfortable place I was in. I was so scared, I began screaming, but you never once tried to help me. Maybe you never heard me. The monster got closer and closer as I was screaming and screaming, "Mommy, Mommy, help me please; Mommy, help me." Complete terror is all I felt. I screamed and screamed until I thought I couldn't anymore. Then the monster started ripping my arms off. It hurt so bad; the pain I can never explain. It didn't stop. Oh, how I begged it to stop. I screamed in horror as it ripped my leg off. Though I was in such complete pain, I was dying. I knew I would never see your face or hear you say how much you love me. I wanted to make all your tears go away. I had so many plans to make you happy. Now I couldn't; all my dreams were shattered. Though I was in utter pain and horror, I felt the pain of my heart breaking, above all. I wanted more than anything to be your daughter. No use now, for I was dying a painful death. I could only imagine the terrible things that they had done to you. I wanted to tell you that I love you before I was gone, but I didn't know the words you could understand. And soon, I no longer had the breath to say them; I was dead.I felt myself rising. I was being carried by a huge angel into a big beautiful place. I was still crying, but the physical pain was gone. The angel took me to Jesus and set me on His lap. He said He loved me, and He was my Father. Then I was happy. I asked Him what the thing was that killed me. He answered, "Abortion. I am sorry, my child; for I know how it feels." I don't know what abortion is; I guess that's the name of the monster. I'm writing to say that I love you and to tell you how much I wanted to be your little girl. I tried very hard to live. I wanted to live. I had the will, but I couldn't; the monster was too powerful. It sucked my arms and legs off and finally got all of me. It was impossible to live. I just wanted you to know I tried to stay with you. I didn't want to die. Also, Mommy, please watch out for that abortion monster. Mommy, I love you and I would hate for you to go through the kind of pain I did. Please be careful.
Love,
Your Baby Girl
Okay now, Let’s take a look at the definitions of murder and abortion.
Murder-
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Abortion-
Termination of pregnancy and expulsion of an embryo or of a fetus.
These two definitions may sound different, but as you read into them, they begin to show signs of similarities.
Let’s take a look at the differences first of all.
1. Murder is unlawful, and abortion is lawful.
2. Murder is outside of the womb, Abortion is inside of the womb.
Now let us look at the similarities
1. They both involve killing another human being.
2. They are both premeditated.
Looking at the differences, my goal is to change number one, and number two, it shouldn’t matter where anyone is! If I lived in a hole, would it matter if someone killed me there instead of at an office building? No! It isn’t any different here.
Now let us look at the similarities. They both involve killing another human being! Some would say that the embryo isn’t a human being yet. I don’t buy it. It breathes and thinks. That is good enough for me. Also, the abortion is completely premeditated. They plan out the abortion very clearly down to the minute it will happen.
After looking at those facts, I believe that abortion is murder after you break it down.
Now let’s look at the less judicial part of it. The ethics.
Some teenagers may say, “I can’t handle the responsibility or it wasn’t my fault.”
To that, I say bull! First of all, you shouldn’t having been having sex out of wedlock, second of all, if you are, take birth control. Do not ruin a young baby's life just because you are selfish!
Second of all, the lawmakers say that it reduces the population. Put the babies up for adoption! Put them with a loving family! Don't be a vampire and steal their life, be a life giver!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
*NOTE*: THIS IS NOT FOR THE WEAK AT STOMACH :*NOTE*
Just read...
Dear Mommy, I am in Heaven now, sitting on Jesus' lap. He loves me and cries with me; for my heart has been broken. I so wanted to be your little girl. I don't quite understand what has happened. I was so excited when I began realizing my existance. I was in a dark, yet comfortable place. I saw I had fingers and toes. I was pretty far along in my developing, yet not near ready to leave my surroundings. I spent most of my time thinking or sleeping. Even from my earliest days, I felt a special bonding between you and me. Sometimes I heard you crying and I cried with you. Sometimes you would yell or scream, then cry. I heard Daddy yelling back. I was sad, and hoped you would be better soon. I wondered why you cried so much. One day you cried almost all of the day. I hurt for you. I couldn't imagine why you were so unhappy. That same day, the most horrible thing happened. A very mean monster came into that warm, comfortable place I was in. I was so scared, I began screaming, but you never once tried to help me. Maybe you never heard me. The monster got closer and closer as I was screaming and screaming, "Mommy, Mommy, help me please; Mommy, help me." Complete terror is all I felt. I screamed and screamed until I thought I couldn't anymore. Then the monster started ripping my arms off. It hurt so bad; the pain I can never explain. It didn't stop. Oh, how I begged it to stop. I screamed in horror as it ripped my leg off. Though I was in such complete pain, I was dying. I knew I would never see your face or hear you say how much you love me. I wanted to make all your tears go away. I had so many plans to make you happy. Now I couldn't; all my dreams were shattered. Though I was in utter pain and horror, I felt the pain of my heart breaking, above all. I wanted more than anything to be your daughter. No use now, for I was dying a painful death. I could only imagine the terrible things that they had done to you. I wanted to tell you that I love you before I was gone, but I didn't know the words you could understand. And soon, I no longer had the breath to say them; I was dead.I felt myself rising. I was being carried by a huge angel into a big beautiful place. I was still crying, but the physical pain was gone. The angel took me to Jesus and set me on His lap. He said He loved me, and He was my Father. Then I was happy. I asked Him what the thing was that killed me. He answered, "Abortion. I am sorry, my child; for I know how it feels." I don't know what abortion is; I guess that's the name of the monster. I'm writing to say that I love you and to tell you how much I wanted to be your little girl. I tried very hard to live. I wanted to live. I had the will, but I couldn't; the monster was too powerful. It sucked my arms and legs off and finally got all of me. It was impossible to live. I just wanted you to know I tried to stay with you. I didn't want to die. Also, Mommy, please watch out for that abortion monster. Mommy, I love you and I would hate for you to go through the kind of pain I did. Please be careful.
Love,
Your Baby Girl
omg that is sooooooooooooooooooo sad! it really makes u think bout what ir doing! i wouldnt of ever had abortion anyway but i think that this was a really good way of showing how mad abortion could be!
pinkangell234 it's not quite as simple as you think. If you have not been in a position to really think about it you will not understand it fully. As for "well you had sex now deal with it" arguement, that is purile. You are 13, if you had sex and got pregnant you would not be able to care for that child on your own. You cannot get a job, you have not finished your education, and you sure as hell are not mature enough to raise a child. Forcing someone your age to have a child and raise said child is more cruel then just ending the pregnancy before it hits 10 weeks. Why do I say 10 weeks? Because before then the nervous system isn't formed. It's just a ball of cells. Nothing more.
Thank you robb!!
Robb has said it all and even though i think abortions should be allowed for longer i would see something like 10 weeks as a compramise...but like thats ever going to happen
Robb has said it all and even though i think abortions should be allowed for longer i would see something like 10 weeks as a compramise...but like thats ever going to happen
It's NOT a case of what's Right or Wrong. It's not and the ignorance is starting to anger me.
And just because you are sexually active it doesn't mean you should be expected to be able to raise a child. Why do I say that? Because there are things called birth control available.
I think if you aren't ready to have children the option should be open. A human life should never be used as a punishment because someone didn't think their actions through. THAT is unethical.
And just because you are sexually active it doesn't mean you should be expected to be able to raise a child. Why do I say that? Because there are things called birth control available.
I think if you aren't ready to have children the option should be open. A human life should never be used as a punishment because someone didn't think their actions through. THAT is unethical.
I think its wrong!! But if the women was raped or it would be a complication, like it could kill the mother or the baby, then I dont think its a bad thing..
I'm beginning to get the idea that people are just looking at the title of the thread and posting without even looking at any of the posts here. Hmmm.
QUOTE
Embryo: The young of an animal in the womb, or more specifically, before its parts are developed and it becomes a fetus (see Fetus).
QUOTE
The young or embryo of an animal in the womb, or in the egg; often restricted to the later stages in the development of viviparous and oviparous animals, embryo being applied to the earlier stages.
They are not yet people, therefore, killing them is not murder.
QUOTE
The offense of killing a human being with malice prepense or aforethought, express or implied; intentional and unlawful homicide.
... So it is the killing of a human being... not a fetus or an embryo. I think of it as "potential life form." I think that if its her body, she should do what she wants with it. I know that a tattoo comparison is less important as we are talking about a POTENTIAL human life...
If a woman wants to go get a tattoo, its her body, she can do what she wants with it. If she makes the wrong decision, than she is stuck with it for the rest of her life, unless she gets a procedure to have it removed. Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't mean he/she should have to live with it.
Okay, I totally see what you're saying, but you're right in saying that comparing it to a tattoo isn't apt.
Despite that, what you're saying is right. A human life should never be used as a punishment, I know I've said that loads of times but just to get the point across, I thought I'd say it again.
Despite that, what you're saying is right. A human life should never be used as a punishment, I know I've said that loads of times but just to get the point across, I thought I'd say it again.
QUOTE (Irish Hunny @ May 29 2005, 06:13 PM)
I think its wrong!! But if the women was raped or it would be a complication, like it could kill the mother or the baby, then I dont think its a bad thing..
I hate people who say "abortion is okay only if the woman was raped" almost as much as I hate people who say that even rape victims shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion.
When you say that abortion should only be allowed in the case of rape, it sounds like you're saying that you believe that women should be punished (through pregnancy and childbirth) for making choices that you, personally, disapprove of.
QUOTE (dear materialista @ Jun 11 2005, 08:50 AM)
QUOTE (Irish Hunny @ May 29 2005, 06:13 PM)
I think its wrong!! But if the women was raped or it would be a complication, like it could kill the mother or the baby, then I dont think its a bad thing..
I hate people who say "abortion is okay only if the woman was raped" almost as much as I hate people who say that even rape victims shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion.
When you say that abortion should only be allowed in the case of rape, it sounds like you're saying that you believe that women should be punished (through pregnancy and childbirth) for making choices that you, personally, disapprove of.
Couldn't have been said any better..
QUOTE (xlilshawtyx133 @ Jun 11 2005, 11:51 AM)
QUOTE (dear materialista @ Jun 11 2005, 08:50 AM)
QUOTE (Irish Hunny @ May 29 2005, 06:13 PM)
I think its wrong!! But if the women was raped or it would be a complication, like it could kill the mother or the baby, then I dont think its a bad thing..
I hate people who say "abortion is okay only if the woman was raped" almost as much as I hate people who say that even rape victims shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion.
When you say that abortion should only be allowed in the case of rape, it sounds like you're saying that you believe that women should be punished (through pregnancy and childbirth) for making choices that you, personally, disapprove of.
Couldn't have been said any better..
I agree with u too
But its the woman's choice. The mothers don't care if you think its wrong, if you think its wrong than don't get one. Thats it. Pro-life people should not in any way force young teenage girls to carry a child that they don't want for 9 months. People shouldn't be able to force other people of making a choice that they OBVIOUSLY don't want to make.
Its not like the girls/women won't find another way to terminate a pregnancy.
Its not like the girls/women won't find another way to terminate a pregnancy.
I think that if u have an abortion u mite as well b sent 2 jail for murder, because an unborn baby is also a living thing. If u kill it it would b da same as killin a 50 year old or w/e. That's just mi opinion. Also if u dont want a baby, then u should have been more careful and used some more protection. More ppl need 2 practice safe sex. If I wanted to have sex, which I dont, and not have a baby I'd b on the pill and use a condom and every other form of pregnancy prevention. Rape is another thing, if u get pregnant from that, but u should still keep the baby alive, keep it or just give it up for adoption. At least u wouldnt b murdering nething. If u bcome preg. u should juss deal w/ tha fact dat u made a mistake or w/e and get over it. Keep the baby alive.
So in your opinion since they had sex use the baby to punish them? In turn you could be endagering the babies life and pretty much killing it any ways. Oh and on a scientific level until the 3rd trimester an unborn fetus is not a living human. So it isnt murder.
I find it amusing that all pro-lifers seem more concerned about the "life" of the ball of cells, rather then the life of the person who it would affect the most. And telling a rape victim they must have the child, that is classed as cruel and unusual punishment, which is against the human rights charter. But wait! You're in the US pink13shimmerz, so you don't have to obey that due to your lovely dictator......
People like you make me sick.
People like you make me sick.
QUOTE (pink13shimmerz @ Jun 14 2005, 11:36 PM)
I think that if u have an abortion u mite as well b sent 2 jail for murder, because an unborn baby is also a living thing. If u kill it it would b da same as killin a 50 year old or w/e. That's just mi opinion. Also if u dont want a baby, then u should have been more careful and used some more protection. More ppl need 2 practice safe sex. If I wanted to have sex, which I dont, and not have a baby I'd b on the pill and use a condom and every other form of pregnancy prevention. Rape is another thing, if u get pregnant from that, but u should still keep the baby alive, keep it or just give it up for adoption. At least u wouldnt b murdering nething. If u bcome preg. u should juss deal w/ tha fact dat u made a mistake or w/e and get over it. Keep the baby alive.
So a mass of cells the size of a grain of rice is equal to a 50 year old person with hopes, dreams, emotions, accomplishments, friends, and a family?
Would you be saying the same thing if that 50 year old was your mother?
I've already said that using a human life as a punishment is SICK and UNETHICAL, but I'll say it again. And with regards to a woman being made to keep the baby from a rape, how would you like to live the rest of your life carrying with you the reminder of how you were attacked and used?
While some people do manage to come back from this,(and I have enormous amounts of respect for them for it) some get plunged into a dark place.
"If u bcome preg. u should juss deal w/ tha fact dat u made a mistake or w/e and get over it" is a very naive view to have. How would you feel if you found yourself pregnant and one of your wonderful friends said that to you?
Ignorant
While some people do manage to come back from this,(and I have enormous amounts of respect for them for it) some get plunged into a dark place.
"If u bcome preg. u should juss deal w/ tha fact dat u made a mistake or w/e and get over it" is a very naive view to have. How would you feel if you found yourself pregnant and one of your wonderful friends said that to you?
Ignorant
QUOTE (pink13shimmerz @ Jun 14 2005, 09:36 PM)
I think that if u have an abortion u mite as well b sent 2 jail for murder, because an unborn baby is also a living thing.No it isnt, not yet anyway. If u kill it it would b da same as killin a 50 year old or w/e.So if I went and killed your best friend you would still feel that an unborn child can even compare to them? That's just mi opinion. Also if u dont want a baby, then u should have been more careful and used some more protection.My best friend is the result of a broken condom. They don't always work. More ppl need 2 practice safe sex. If I wanted to have sex, which I dont, and not have a baby I'd b on the pill and use a condom and every other form of pregnancy prevention. Rape is another thing, if u get pregnant from that, but u should still keep the baby alive, keep it or just give it up for adoption. At least u wouldnt b murdering nething. If u bcome preg. u should juss deal w/ tha fact dat u made a mistake or w/e and get over it. Keep the baby alive. It isn't alive yet.
I think that says it all.
Nicely answered.
in my opinion i believe that it should be allowed and okay.. its a womans body and her baby she created it so she can do what she wants.. i think its stupid how so many people are against it. just might as well let a girl do what she wants.. she would be the one taking care of it.. not everyone else against it
i agree with xBpTzMaMii203x. no law should tell us what we should do with our bodies. women have worked lond and hard to get back their freedom so why are they trying to limit our freedom of what we want to do with our bodies. i am not for abortion because i believe that you are killing a life of an unborn child that can bring much happiness and joy to a family, but that doesnt mean that everyone has to be against it because i say so. it's my opinion on what i would like to do with my body and everyone has their own. now if someone is not ready to have a baby and is scared of giving birth, they may turn to abortion, but will turned down because one mind in this world says that they are against it. the president is the one who makes laws but he should be more considerate in his lawmaking decisions. if he is going to put an end to abortions than he might as well put an end to having sex.
You win at life.
QUOTE (Suzy @ Jun 10 2005, 04:25 PM)
A human life should never be used as a punishment
Of course it shouldn't be used as a punishment, but whether you like to admit it or not, it's a concequence. Depending on the situation, it could be good or bad, but every decision made in life comes with concequences.
QUOTE (supersweet_iz @ Jun 16 2005, 06:10 PM)
QUOTE (Suzy @ Jun 10 2005, 04:25 PM)
A human life should never be used as a punishment
Of course it shouldn't be used as a punishment, but whether you like to admit it or not, it's a concequence. Depending on the situation, it could be good or bad, but every decision made in life comes with concequences.
And abortion is a way of dealing with the consequences. Whether you like to admit it or not.
Having a baby IS NOT a consequence of having unprotected sex. Becoming pregnant is. Staying pregnant is not. After that, it's your choice what to do.
abortion is murder...period. Just cuz you make a mistake don't kill another human being, and don't tell me its not a life bcuz we were all once like that and look at us now. Life is not a game you created it its your own flesh and blood jeez ppl... if you cant to the time don't do the crime
QUOTE
if you cant to the time don't do the crime
Ugh. What's with pro-lifers trying to criminalize sex? SEX IS NOT A CRIME.
It's a normal, healthy activity that people do. Not everyone does it to make babies, believe it or not.
QUOTE
abortion is murder...period.
mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Unlawful? Nope.
Malice? Nope.
Oops, sorry, that argument went out the window.
Anybody who uses religion or the bible to justify the pro-life movement should read this.
QUOTE
Is Abortion Murder?
By
Graham Spurgeon
About the Author
Bible Scholar Graham Spurgeon, a Baptist, lives in Buncombe county,
North Carolina. This essay has been distributed in all 50 states and in
many foreign countries, and is considered by many people to be the most
persuasive pro-abortion essay ever published in America.
Q. What is your position on abortion?
A. I believe that a woman should be free to choose whether or not to
have an abortion. No one else should tell her not to have an abortion.
No one else should tell her what to do and what not to do.
Q. Who wants to deny her this choice?
A. There are many fanatics in our land who want to make all abortions illegal.
Q. Are all anti-abortionists fanatics?
A. No, and I respect those anti-abortionists who are willing to make
concessions in a generous, humane spirit. For example, my esteemed
brother In Christ, Billy Graham, approves of abortion “In cases of
rape, incest, or when the mother’s life is at stake.” When I talk about
fanatics, I’m not talking about folks like Billy Graham. I am talking
about those cruel individuals who are against any and all abortions -
period.
Q. Is abortion murder?
A. The fanatics say so, but they haven’t looked closely at the Bible.
Let’s see what the Word of God says on this matter: In the Old
Testament, a law was stated clearly fr the Children of Israel after
they came out of Egypt:
If, when men come to blows, they hurt a woman who is pregnant and she
suffers a miscarriage, though she does not die of it, the man
responsible must pay the compensation demanded of him by the woman’s
master; he shall hand it over, after arbitration. But should she die,
you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for
hand, foot for foot. (Exodus 21:22-24, Jerusalem Bible)
In other words, if you cause the death of the fetus, you merely pay a
fine; if you cause the death of the woman, you lose your own life.
Thus, the Bible clearly shows that a fetus is not considered a person.
If the fetus were considered to be a person, then the penalty for
killing it would be the same as for killing the woman – death.
Abortion then, is not murder. These verses in Exodus, by the way, are
backed up by four thousand years of Jewish law; abortion has never been
considered murder in Jewish law. A fetus is only a potential person.
Incidentally, the fine the Israelite man had to pay was not for the
fetus; it was for hurting the woman. This is made clear in another
translation of the same verses (Revised Standard Version): “The one who
hurt her (the woman) shall be fined.” There was no fine for hurting the
fetus because it was not considered a person.
Q. But doesn’t life begin at conception?
A. No, life begins before conception. The sperm is alive and the ovum
is alive – long before they get together at the moment of
fertilization. As Dr. John A. Henderson says, “Life does not begin at
conception; it is only changed and now has the potential for a
different form.”
If terminating life is murder, then the anti-abortion fanatics should
be consistent and say that terminating the life of the egg or sperm is
murder. (Believe it or not, there is a crackpot group in California
that is making this very accusation: they say that males who masturbate
should be punished because they are guilty of wasting human life in the
form of semen.)
Q. If the embryo is a potential person, shouldn’t it be treated the same way as a full-fledged person?
A. An acorn is not an oak, a seed is not a rose, an embryo is not a
human being. Nowhere in the Bible is the embryo or fetus given the
status of a human being. Personhood does not begin at conception.
Q. When does personhood begin?
A. The Bible indicates that personhood begins when a baby emerges from
the mother’s womn. In the Bible and in modern life, birthdays are
observed on the date of the baby’s emergence from the womb. The precise
moment of the beginning of personhood is when the baby takes its first
breath.
Q. Why the first breath?
A. Because that’s when God infuses the baby with a soul. Genesis 2:7
says, “And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living
soul.” In other words, when an infant breathes its first breath, the
soul enters its body and it achieves the status of person.
Q. Doesn’t God want every fetus to grow into a person?
A. Not according to the Bible. In Ecclesiastes 6:3, God compares the
rich man who has led an empty foolish life with a still-born infant and
says, “it would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
The world is better off without Judases and Hitlers and Charles Mansons
– who quite often begin life unwanted, grow up abused and hated, and
then take out their agner on society. How many psychopaths and
distructive misfits will be born if anti-abortion fanatics force women
to bear unwanted children?
Q. The anti abortionists say that when conception occurs, that means God wants a child to result.
A. Whoever says that doesn’t know biology.
Consider these facts:
1. Between one-half and two-thirds of fertilized eggs in a woman fail
to implant themselves in the uterus. They are washed away unnoticed.
2. In the United States each year, there are about one million
spontaneous abortions – also called miscarriages. The abortions occur
naturally- that is, the fetus is expelled from the womb without the
assistance of doctors. In many cases, the woman is relieved of a
horribly defective or diseased fetus. Scientists say this is nature’s
way of handling deformed fetuses; a religious person would say that God
is merciful in bringing about the spontaneous abortion.
Q. But spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is far different from induced abortion, isn’t it?
A. I don’t think so. In many cases, abortion by a surgeon is simply a
way of assisting nature, similar to the way we take various medicines
to assist the natural processes of healing. Let’s say that doctors
discover that a pregnant woman is carrying a fetus that is horribly
deformed. If abortion doesn’t occur spontaneously (a miscarriage), then
doctors are only assisting what normally should take place.
Q. Why didn’t God speak out explicitly on the question of abortion in the Bible?
A. It wasn’t an issue in Biblical time. (Neither was polio, but who
would say that polio vaccine is against the will of God?) In Biblical
times, abortion was not an issue because safe procedures were not
known. Nowadays, abortion is safer than childbirth (statistically, a
woman is less likely to die from abortion than from childbirth).
Q. Why did God wait so long to give the world safe abortion?
A. The world didn’t need it as much in the past as it does now. I think
He is showing mercy on us by giving us this safe surgical technique at
a time when the world is almost choking to death from over population.
Human beings can't take care of the children already on earth: United
Nations health authorities tell us that one-third of the world’s
children die of malnutrition before the age of five. One out of three.
What kind of life is that? I think God is showing us He wants quality –
not quantity.
Q. The anti-abortionists would say that you are a “baby-killer.”
A. I happen to love children, I marvel at my own – they are little
miracles, they are treasures. It is because I treasure babies that I am
for abortion. I want to see babies that are wanted, loved, adored – not
babies that are hated and abused, and forced into the world because of
the misguided zeal of fanatics.
Q. Some anti-abortionists say that abortions in America constitute a Hitler-style Holocaust.
A. This is ironic because Hitler (and Stalin as well) outlawed
abortion. Totalitarian regimes want to control every aspect of a
person’s life, including a woman’s reproductive system. In America, by
contrast, when our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution, early
abortions were legal. Allowing women to control their own bodies is the
American way; treating women like cattle is the totalitarian way of
dictators and ayatollahs.
Q. Won’t the American family be weakened by legalized abortion?
A. No. What would weaken the family is the government [were] to strip
parents of their right to decide their family size for themselves.
Q. Wouldn’t widespread abortion make people callous to human life?
A. No, to the contrary, it would be society’s way of saying, “life is
important. Children are important, and they shouldn’t be brought into
the world unless they can be loved and provided for.” Child abuse is a
sin and a crime (see Jesus’ remarks in Matthew 18:6).
Q. But the anti abortionists say that unwanted children can be put up for adoption.
A. This is a cruel hoax – all this talk about adoption. There are
currently 120,000 children in this country – and uncounted millions
elsewhere in the world – who are unadoptable. Nobody wants them.
Blue-eyed, blond, white-skinned children are quickly adopted. But if a
child is black or physically handicapped or mentally retarded, he or
she is not likely to find a permanent home. It’s a shame, but it’s
true. (Incidentally, there are many black couples who would love to
adopt black babies but can’t afford to.)
Q. Can you give an example of a case in which abortion is the desired alternative?
A. A mentally retarded 12-year-old girl was raped by her father and she
became pregnant. Doctors’ tests indicated that the fetus was physically
deformed with a strong probability of mental retardation. The girl’s
mother – who was living in terrible poverty – wanted the girl to have
an abortion, and her pastor concurred. I think God favored this
abortion. There are many other cases, of course, which could also be
cited.
Q. Do you think that babies that do come into the world with handicaps should be killed?
A. Of course not. Once a baby is born, it is to be loved and cherished
and helped as much as possible. Here is an interesting comment made by
a woman who wrote to columnist Ann Landers: “I am the mother of a child
with Down’s Syndrome. I believe that a special child can enrich one’s
life. My husband and I have devoted a major part of our waking hours
these past 12 years to making sure our son has a full and productive
life. Our older children have also made this commitment to their
brother. Given the chance, we would choose to have the beloved child
again – just as he is. We would also choose not to bring another one
like him into the world. Why? It is not that we lack compassion, it is
simply a matter of energy.” She goes on to say that she and her husband
are strongly in favor of a woman’s freedom to choose whether or not to
have an abortion.
Q. The anti-abortionists talk about the pain that the fetus feels during abortion. Is there really pain involved?
A. Yes, any abrupt change in tissue structure results in “distress.”
Yes, the fetus twitches. But you could carry this pseudo-scientific
logic to an extreme: scientists have proven that plants are as
sensitive as animals; when plucked by their roots, they “scream” with
electrophysiological “pain.” Should we therefore stop harvesting
vegetables because of this “pain?”
I am not moved by the “pain” of an embryo, which is a smidgen of
tissue. (At four weeks, an embryo is no bigger than a kernal of corn –
don’t let blown-up photographs mislead you.) I am moved, however, by
the abuse of a child who is battered and slashed by parents who never
wanted him.
Q. Are you saying that the anti-abortionists are indifferent to the pain of child abuse?
A. Though many anti-abortionists are fine, sensitive human beings, the
fanatics among them seem to have a concern that begins with conception
and ends with birth. Columnist Carl T. Rowan says the fanatics want to
“force poor women to have babies, curse them when their children go on
welfare, deny the children even a minimum level of decency, then wait
for them to get pregnant at age 12 or 13 when they can tell them, ‘No
abortions, you must have babies.’”
Q. Don’t you admire the anti-abortionists for being motivated by reverence for life?
A. That’s not their main motivation. Their main motivation is revenge.
They want to see pregnant teenagers suffer the consequences of their
sin. I have seen the evil gleam of vengeance in the anti abortionists’
eyes as they say, “She had her fun; now she has to pay the price.”
When the mob wanted to stone the woman who had committed adultery,
Jesus said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a
stone at her.” (John 8:7) I’m afraid that if Jesus were to repeat those
words today, these self-righteous hypocrites would pick up stones and
smash the poor girls who have been guilty of making a mistake. Stoning
is not far from what these fanatics are in fact trying to do today.
They are not so much pro-life as they are pro-vengeance. Their stones
are these cruel words: “You must have that baby!”
To the woman who says, “I have seven children already,” the fanatics reply, “You must have that baby!”
To the woman who says, “I was raped,” the fanatics reply, “You must have that baby!”
To the woman who says, “My doctor says I will die if I have this baby,” the fanatics reply, “You must have that baby!”
You must have that baby – words of stone, crueler than the stones hurled at sinners in Jesus’ day by self righteous Pharisees.
Q. Isn’t it a good thing for teenage girls to be made afraid of getting pregnant? Doesn’t this discourage premarital sex?
A. I share the anti-abortionists’ concern about teenage sex. I think
it’s wrong. We should try to discourage teenage sex and teach young
people that sex is a part of marriage. But studies show that fear of
pregnancy does not deter sexually active teenagers from having sex.
They have the attitude, “It won’t happen to me.”
Q. Well shouldn’t pregnant teenagers be made to suffer the consequences of their wrongdoing?
A. If the girl wants to go ahead and have the baby, fine; but she
shouldn’t be forced to have it. Why? Because the one who will suffer
the most is not the mother but the child. Unwanted, unloved children
are frequently abused, and they often grow up to become delinquents and
criminals. Then society is made to suffer, as well. The “punishment” of
the mother is enormously out of proportion to the “crime.”
Q. How do you know that unwanted children often become criminals?
A. There are dozens of studies, but let me cite just one – by the late
Mickey McConnell, a prison minister: “Approximately 80 percent of the
people in prison were unwanted and unloved children. And a large
majority of the mass murderers and violent killers in American history
were brutalized children.
Imagine our society if every child is wanted and taken care of: we
would virtually wipe out crime and close most of our jails. As someone
once said, “There wouldn’t be anyone on the FBI’s Most Wanted List if
these men had been wanted by their parents when they were little.” We
would avoid stunted, thwarted lives; we would eliminate poverty and the
grinding burden of welfare. We would see the flowering of every
person’s intelligence and humanity.
Q. Anti-abortionists
tell women who have had abortions, “Aren’t you ashamed, and don’t you
wonder night and day what the baby would have looked like?”
A. This is just part of the vicious, insensitive campaign to make women
feel guilty and sinful for having had an abortion. As I have already
pointed out, most fertilized eggs fail to implant themselves in the
uterus and are washed away unnoticed. Should a woman weep and wail over
all those lost “children?”
Q. Shouldn’t a woman who has had an abortion feel some amount of shame?
A. No, there is no need for her to hang her head in shame. She is
showing respect for life and devotion to God when she says, “Life is
too precious for me to bring a child into the world at this time. I
want to wait until I have the money or the emotional resources to be a
good mother.”
Q. Aren’t all good Christians opposed to abortion?
A. No, there are many, many denominations that either favor abortion or
favor a woman’s right to decide for herself. The people in these
denominations outnumber the fanatics. Here are just a few of the
national religious organizations which have come out in favor of a
woman’s right to decide for herself. People in these denominations
outnumber the fanatics.
American Baptist Churches, American Jewish Congress, Disciples of
Christ, Church of the Brethren, Episcopal Church, Lutheran Church in
America, Presbyterian Church in the U.S., Reorganized Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints, United Church of Christ, United Methodist
Church, and United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.
Q. Since the anti-abortionists are so sincere in their views, shouldn’t their views be written into law?
A. No, because putting their views into law would take away my freedom
of religion. It would mean that they would force their religious
beliefs upon me. (The Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in blood
transfusions; that’s fine, but what if they tried to get the laws
changed so that a blood transfusion was illegal?)
I believe that abortion is sometimes the Christian and humane
alternative. I believe that God wants us to bring into this world only
the number of children which we can adequately take care of. I believe
that God has given us this safe surgical procedure as a gift to hold
down the population in a world that is choked with too many people and
not enough food, a world that is filled with unwanted children.
I am thankful to God for abortion. Anyone who reads the Bible with an
open mind and – more important – an open heart, will see that our
Heavenly Father wants quality, not quantity, for His children.
Copyright 1982, by Graham Spurgeon
All rights reserved.
Second Printing, 1982
Third Printing, 1983, (Revised)
Fourth Printing, 1983 (Title Revision)
By
Graham Spurgeon
About the Author
Bible Scholar Graham Spurgeon, a Baptist, lives in Buncombe county,
North Carolina. This essay has been distributed in all 50 states and in
many foreign countries, and is considered by many people to be the most
persuasive pro-abortion essay ever published in America.
Q. What is your position on abortion?
A. I believe that a woman should be free to choose whether or not to
have an abortion. No one else should tell her not to have an abortion.
No one else should tell her what to do and what not to do.
Q. Who wants to deny her this choice?
A. There are many fanatics in our land who want to make all abortions illegal.
Q. Are all anti-abortionists fanatics?
A. No, and I respect those anti-abortionists who are willing to make
concessions in a generous, humane spirit. For example, my esteemed
brother In Christ, Billy Graham, approves of abortion “In cases of
rape, incest, or when the mother’s life is at stake.” When I talk about
fanatics, I’m not talking about folks like Billy Graham. I am talking
about those cruel individuals who are against any and all abortions -
period.
Q. Is abortion murder?
A. The fanatics say so, but they haven’t looked closely at the Bible.
Let’s see what the Word of God says on this matter: In the Old
Testament, a law was stated clearly fr the Children of Israel after
they came out of Egypt:
If, when men come to blows, they hurt a woman who is pregnant and she
suffers a miscarriage, though she does not die of it, the man
responsible must pay the compensation demanded of him by the woman’s
master; he shall hand it over, after arbitration. But should she die,
you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for
hand, foot for foot. (Exodus 21:22-24, Jerusalem Bible)
In other words, if you cause the death of the fetus, you merely pay a
fine; if you cause the death of the woman, you lose your own life.
Thus, the Bible clearly shows that a fetus is not considered a person.
If the fetus were considered to be a person, then the penalty for
killing it would be the same as for killing the woman – death.
Abortion then, is not murder. These verses in Exodus, by the way, are
backed up by four thousand years of Jewish law; abortion has never been
considered murder in Jewish law. A fetus is only a potential person.
Incidentally, the fine the Israelite man had to pay was not for the
fetus; it was for hurting the woman. This is made clear in another
translation of the same verses (Revised Standard Version): “The one who
hurt her (the woman) shall be fined.” There was no fine for hurting the
fetus because it was not considered a person.
Q. But doesn’t life begin at conception?
A. No, life begins before conception. The sperm is alive and the ovum
is alive – long before they get together at the moment of
fertilization. As Dr. John A. Henderson says, “Life does not begin at
conception; it is only changed and now has the potential for a
different form.”
If terminating life is murder, then the anti-abortion fanatics should
be consistent and say that terminating the life of the egg or sperm is
murder. (Believe it or not, there is a crackpot group in California
that is making this very accusation: they say that males who masturbate
should be punished because they are guilty of wasting human life in the
form of semen.)
Q. If the embryo is a potential person, shouldn’t it be treated the same way as a full-fledged person?
A. An acorn is not an oak, a seed is not a rose, an embryo is not a
human being. Nowhere in the Bible is the embryo or fetus given the
status of a human being. Personhood does not begin at conception.
Q. When does personhood begin?
A. The Bible indicates that personhood begins when a baby emerges from
the mother’s womn. In the Bible and in modern life, birthdays are
observed on the date of the baby’s emergence from the womb. The precise
moment of the beginning of personhood is when the baby takes its first
breath.
Q. Why the first breath?
A. Because that’s when God infuses the baby with a soul. Genesis 2:7
says, “And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living
soul.” In other words, when an infant breathes its first breath, the
soul enters its body and it achieves the status of person.
Q. Doesn’t God want every fetus to grow into a person?
A. Not according to the Bible. In Ecclesiastes 6:3, God compares the
rich man who has led an empty foolish life with a still-born infant and
says, “it would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
The world is better off without Judases and Hitlers and Charles Mansons
– who quite often begin life unwanted, grow up abused and hated, and
then take out their agner on society. How many psychopaths and
distructive misfits will be born if anti-abortion fanatics force women
to bear unwanted children?
Q. The anti abortionists say that when conception occurs, that means God wants a child to result.
A. Whoever says that doesn’t know biology.
Consider these facts:
1. Between one-half and two-thirds of fertilized eggs in a woman fail
to implant themselves in the uterus. They are washed away unnoticed.
2. In the United States each year, there are about one million
spontaneous abortions – also called miscarriages. The abortions occur
naturally- that is, the fetus is expelled from the womb without the
assistance of doctors. In many cases, the woman is relieved of a
horribly defective or diseased fetus. Scientists say this is nature’s
way of handling deformed fetuses; a religious person would say that God
is merciful in bringing about the spontaneous abortion.
Q. But spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is far different from induced abortion, isn’t it?
A. I don’t think so. In many cases, abortion by a surgeon is simply a
way of assisting nature, similar to the way we take various medicines
to assist the natural processes of healing. Let’s say that doctors
discover that a pregnant woman is carrying a fetus that is horribly
deformed. If abortion doesn’t occur spontaneously (a miscarriage), then
doctors are only assisting what normally should take place.
Q. Why didn’t God speak out explicitly on the question of abortion in the Bible?
A. It wasn’t an issue in Biblical time. (Neither was polio, but who
would say that polio vaccine is against the will of God?) In Biblical
times, abortion was not an issue because safe procedures were not
known. Nowadays, abortion is safer than childbirth (statistically, a
woman is less likely to die from abortion than from childbirth).
Q. Why did God wait so long to give the world safe abortion?
A. The world didn’t need it as much in the past as it does now. I think
He is showing mercy on us by giving us this safe surgical technique at
a time when the world is almost choking to death from over population.
Human beings can't take care of the children already on earth: United
Nations health authorities tell us that one-third of the world’s
children die of malnutrition before the age of five. One out of three.
What kind of life is that? I think God is showing us He wants quality –
not quantity.
Q. The anti-abortionists would say that you are a “baby-killer.”
A. I happen to love children, I marvel at my own – they are little
miracles, they are treasures. It is because I treasure babies that I am
for abortion. I want to see babies that are wanted, loved, adored – not
babies that are hated and abused, and forced into the world because of
the misguided zeal of fanatics.
Q. Some anti-abortionists say that abortions in America constitute a Hitler-style Holocaust.
A. This is ironic because Hitler (and Stalin as well) outlawed
abortion. Totalitarian regimes want to control every aspect of a
person’s life, including a woman’s reproductive system. In America, by
contrast, when our Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution, early
abortions were legal. Allowing women to control their own bodies is the
American way; treating women like cattle is the totalitarian way of
dictators and ayatollahs.
Q. Won’t the American family be weakened by legalized abortion?
A. No. What would weaken the family is the government [were] to strip
parents of their right to decide their family size for themselves.
Q. Wouldn’t widespread abortion make people callous to human life?
A. No, to the contrary, it would be society’s way of saying, “life is
important. Children are important, and they shouldn’t be brought into
the world unless they can be loved and provided for.” Child abuse is a
sin and a crime (see Jesus’ remarks in Matthew 18:6).
Q. But the anti abortionists say that unwanted children can be put up for adoption.
A. This is a cruel hoax – all this talk about adoption. There are
currently 120,000 children in this country – and uncounted millions
elsewhere in the world – who are unadoptable. Nobody wants them.
Blue-eyed, blond, white-skinned children are quickly adopted. But if a
child is black or physically handicapped or mentally retarded, he or
she is not likely to find a permanent home. It’s a shame, but it’s
true. (Incidentally, there are many black couples who would love to
adopt black babies but can’t afford to.)
Q. Can you give an example of a case in which abortion is the desired alternative?
A. A mentally retarded 12-year-old girl was raped by her father and she
became pregnant. Doctors’ tests indicated that the fetus was physically
deformed with a strong probability of mental retardation. The girl’s
mother – who was living in terrible poverty – wanted the girl to have
an abortion, and her pastor concurred. I think God favored this
abortion. There are many other cases, of course, which could also be
cited.
Q. Do you think that babies that do come into the world with handicaps should be killed?
A. Of course not. Once a baby is born, it is to be loved and cherished
and helped as much as possible. Here is an interesting comment made by
a woman who wrote to columnist Ann Landers: “I am the mother of a child
with Down’s Syndrome. I believe that a special child can enrich one’s
life. My husband and I have devoted a major part of our waking hours
these past 12 years to making sure our son has a full and productive
life. Our older children have also made this commitment to their
brother. Given the chance, we would choose to have the beloved child
again – just as he is. We would also choose not to bring another one
like him into the world. Why? It is not that we lack compassion, it is
simply a matter of energy.” She goes on to say that she and her husband
are strongly in favor of a woman’s freedom to choose whether or not to
have an abortion.
Q. The anti-abortionists talk about the pain that the fetus feels during abortion. Is there really pain involved?
A. Yes, any abrupt change in tissue structure results in “distress.”
Yes, the fetus twitches. But you could carry this pseudo-scientific
logic to an extreme: scientists have proven that plants are as
sensitive as animals; when plucked by their roots, they “scream” with
electrophysiological “pain.” Should we therefore stop harvesting
vegetables because of this “pain?”
I am not moved by the “pain” of an embryo, which is a smidgen of
tissue. (At four weeks, an embryo is no bigger than a kernal of corn –
don’t let blown-up photographs mislead you.) I am moved, however, by
the abuse of a child who is battered and slashed by parents who never
wanted him.
Q. Are you saying that the anti-abortionists are indifferent to the pain of child abuse?
A. Though many anti-abortionists are fine, sensitive human beings, the
fanatics among them seem to have a concern that begins with conception
and ends with birth. Columnist Carl T. Rowan says the fanatics want to
“force poor women to have babies, curse them when their children go on
welfare, deny the children even a minimum level of decency, then wait
for them to get pregnant at age 12 or 13 when they can tell them, ‘No
abortions, you must have babies.’”
Q. Don’t you admire the anti-abortionists for being motivated by reverence for life?
A. That’s not their main motivation. Their main motivation is revenge.
They want to see pregnant teenagers suffer the consequences of their
sin. I have seen the evil gleam of vengeance in the anti abortionists’
eyes as they say, “She had her fun; now she has to pay the price.”
When the mob wanted to stone the woman who had committed adultery,
Jesus said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a
stone at her.” (John 8:7) I’m afraid that if Jesus were to repeat those
words today, these self-righteous hypocrites would pick up stones and
smash the poor girls who have been guilty of making a mistake. Stoning
is not far from what these fanatics are in fact trying to do today.
They are not so much pro-life as they are pro-vengeance. Their stones
are these cruel words: “You must have that baby!”
To the woman who says, “I have seven children already,” the fanatics reply, “You must have that baby!”
To the woman who says, “I was raped,” the fanatics reply, “You must have that baby!”
To the woman who says, “My doctor says I will die if I have this baby,” the fanatics reply, “You must have that baby!”
You must have that baby – words of stone, crueler than the stones hurled at sinners in Jesus’ day by self righteous Pharisees.
Q. Isn’t it a good thing for teenage girls to be made afraid of getting pregnant? Doesn’t this discourage premarital sex?
A. I share the anti-abortionists’ concern about teenage sex. I think
it’s wrong. We should try to discourage teenage sex and teach young
people that sex is a part of marriage. But studies show that fear of
pregnancy does not deter sexually active teenagers from having sex.
They have the attitude, “It won’t happen to me.”
Q. Well shouldn’t pregnant teenagers be made to suffer the consequences of their wrongdoing?
A. If the girl wants to go ahead and have the baby, fine; but she
shouldn’t be forced to have it. Why? Because the one who will suffer
the most is not the mother but the child. Unwanted, unloved children
are frequently abused, and they often grow up to become delinquents and
criminals. Then society is made to suffer, as well. The “punishment” of
the mother is enormously out of proportion to the “crime.”
Q. How do you know that unwanted children often become criminals?
A. There are dozens of studies, but let me cite just one – by the late
Mickey McConnell, a prison minister: “Approximately 80 percent of the
people in prison were unwanted and unloved children. And a large
majority of the mass murderers and violent killers in American history
were brutalized children.
Imagine our society if every child is wanted and taken care of: we
would virtually wipe out crime and close most of our jails. As someone
once said, “There wouldn’t be anyone on the FBI’s Most Wanted List if
these men had been wanted by their parents when they were little.” We
would avoid stunted, thwarted lives; we would eliminate poverty and the
grinding burden of welfare. We would see the flowering of every
person’s intelligence and humanity.
Q. Anti-abortionists
tell women who have had abortions, “Aren’t you ashamed, and don’t you
wonder night and day what the baby would have looked like?”
A. This is just part of the vicious, insensitive campaign to make women
feel guilty and sinful for having had an abortion. As I have already
pointed out, most fertilized eggs fail to implant themselves in the
uterus and are washed away unnoticed. Should a woman weep and wail over
all those lost “children?”
Q. Shouldn’t a woman who has had an abortion feel some amount of shame?
A. No, there is no need for her to hang her head in shame. She is
showing respect for life and devotion to God when she says, “Life is
too precious for me to bring a child into the world at this time. I
want to wait until I have the money or the emotional resources to be a
good mother.”
Q. Aren’t all good Christians opposed to abortion?
A. No, there are many, many denominations that either favor abortion or
favor a woman’s right to decide for herself. The people in these
denominations outnumber the fanatics. Here are just a few of the
national religious organizations which have come out in favor of a
woman’s right to decide for herself. People in these denominations
outnumber the fanatics.
American Baptist Churches, American Jewish Congress, Disciples of
Christ, Church of the Brethren, Episcopal Church, Lutheran Church in
America, Presbyterian Church in the U.S., Reorganized Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints, United Church of Christ, United Methodist
Church, and United Presbyterian Church in the U.S.
Q. Since the anti-abortionists are so sincere in their views, shouldn’t their views be written into law?
A. No, because putting their views into law would take away my freedom
of religion. It would mean that they would force their religious
beliefs upon me. (The Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in blood
transfusions; that’s fine, but what if they tried to get the laws
changed so that a blood transfusion was illegal?)
I believe that abortion is sometimes the Christian and humane
alternative. I believe that God wants us to bring into this world only
the number of children which we can adequately take care of. I believe
that God has given us this safe surgical procedure as a gift to hold
down the population in a world that is choked with too many people and
not enough food, a world that is filled with unwanted children.
I am thankful to God for abortion. Anyone who reads the Bible with an
open mind and – more important – an open heart, will see that our
Heavenly Father wants quality, not quantity, for His children.
Copyright 1982, by Graham Spurgeon
All rights reserved.
Second Printing, 1982
Third Printing, 1983, (Revised)
Fourth Printing, 1983 (Title Revision)
i never said sex was a crime ...
QUOTE (Xx3bunniex3X @ Jun 16 2005, 06:43 PM)
i never said sex was a crime ...
Actually, you did. Should I quote it again?
QUOTE
if you cant to the time don't do the crime
Obviously in the context of your post, "the time" is having a baby and "the crime" is having sex. Or would you like to explain it to me better?
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