Yeah, see that's something that prolifers always forget. If you outlaw abortions, then you end up with seriously dodgey illegal ones. Worse than that, you may have scared girls doing it to themselves, and that's worse.

Tell me about it! I argue it all the time. They argue that no one should play God... yet effectively they are playing God by making women keep pregnancies that they may not want. Thats playing God. If God gave free will then Abortion counts as a free will choice.
Thats the point in Good and Evil surely? To make the right choice. The right choice differs for everyone though.

Sometimes "right" and "wrong" become a little blurred. It's not as simple as good and evil. Sure murder is bad, but so is forcing unwanted pregnancy on someone. You preserve a life, yay you, but who truly is the evil one here? I ask that. Forcing someone to go through with that isn't just 9 months of pregnancy, you have to RAISE the child after.

Its such a confusing subject, hense my being pro-choice. I wouldn't couldn't abort a baby maybe im influenced by my losses who knows, but I certainly wouldn't stop anyone else because I haven't walked a mile in their shoes...

i dont agree with abortion
ur killing a humans life who hasnt even took its first breathe in the world
it's mean.. =/
xxo

So a 12 year old who is raped should be forced to have a child that could possibly kill her by carrying it to term? Love your logic there, care do explain a bit more, or should we just go with the usual "Pro-lifer who clearly has no clue about the life earth can give to you"?

what the..o.o i was just saying

Society is not a case for "just saying". You say something, you back it up why you feel that way. Just saying you feel it's murder is a little too cut and dry.

I have given examples where abortion being legal has positive sides.

allright..

Well backyourself up girl!

find me stats that say if abortion was made illegal then there wouldnt be more deaths due to illegal abortion and then maybe we'll start listening

Don't reply with one sentance posts. Back up while you feel this way, why you feel abortion is always a bad thing. You need to realise that not having it there is in many ways, more dangerous than having it as an option. What, you'd prefer if desperate scared girls were going down backstreets undergoing a procedure that could kill them? Sure, it'd be nice for them not to be needed, but life isn't like that, terrible things happen, as do accidents.

I would not say abortion is a good thing. It may be necessary in some situations. I have very strong views on abortion.

-If a women is raped and impregnated by her attacker, then she should be legally allowed to have an abortion.

-If the baby is an incest baby.

-If the mother is a drug addict, and when she finds out she is pregnant, she has no intentions of getting off of the drugs, then I think that an abortion would be the best thing. Why should any child deserve to be born and withdrawing off of drugs?

But I do not agree with people having unprotected sex, getting pregnant, and using abortion as a form of birth control. Why not just use condoms? That seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

Very few people would view abortion as a form of contraception. It's not a form of contraception, for the simple reason that contraception is something that prevents you from getting pregnant in the first place. One would think that is pretty obvious.

I have different views on abortion, mainly the ones similar to Sara.



But also, if the woman get pregnant when she is very young (teenager) or incappable of taking care of a baby.

If a woman gets pregnant and desides to get an abortion, most of the time its for a very good reason. She knows that she can't give the baby the life it deserves.

What kills me is when woman get an abortion simply because "they just didnt want the child." or they just didnt want the responsibility when they know they are cappable of raising a child!

There you go, my thoughts on this subject.

You have good thoughts.

Thank you.

Stop the self congratulatory circle jerking. You want to thank someone or just add one line, use the private message system.

Has anyone ever noticed that this topic is just going around in circles?

I have changed my opinions on abortion.

Im pro-CHOICE. I dont think abortion is right,but it should be a choice. if i got preganant i would have one. As previously mentioned, scared girls would go to get some dodgy home made abortion thing. I am highly Tocophobic so i dont think anyone should ever be forced to raise a child if they dont want to.

I just hate people who say "well you had unprotected sex, now deal with the consequences." Think about it, that forcing someone to look after a child they don't want. Secondly, it's USING a human life to punish someone else, and I think that's just sick.

And yes, this conversation has been going around in circles for a long time. Is it a bad thing? New people come along all the time and add their thoughts as time goes on.

It's true that it's sick to punish someone with the responsiblity of someone else's life, but then abortion is actively destroying said life. Anyone who says otherwise is just making up excuse, and shouldn't be trusted as a biologist anytime soon.
Those who say "My body, my choice" are factually wrong, twice. It's not their body, and even if it were, we have a surpisingly large collection of restrictions on what you may do with it.
Those who say "Give it up, there's loads of people looking for children" are mistaken. Firstly, there are always children in orphanages waiting countless years and secondly, adding more children won't magically grant these people children where they were previously declined.

When it comes to other people, no stance exists that isn't wrong. Even "Stop having sex, damnit!" seems to offend many people. I shouldn't allow people to kill others, I shouldn't force people to drastically change their lives, and I can't seem able to suggest what looks like the sensible option.

Abortion is, therefore, a ridiculous problem that won't solve itself and we're wasting server space discussing it.

Hense being pro-choice

eh, i think it is a conditional matter.

i'm pro-choice.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0504/abortion.html

This is happening in my country right now. The child will not survive birth, at all. And yet they are still forcing her to carry it to term. Yes 4 months is a late term abortion, and normally I would say "too little too late", but this case is clearly cruelty, and would come under torture in the eyes of the UN human rights.

Well you see all they are thinking about at the moment is "baby baby baby baby". The goverment does not appear to be even considering what this is going to do emotionally to the mother.

Suffice to say my government makes me sick.

Yeah, I was going to post that story last week when I saw it. It's absolutely awful. I mean, 4 months is a little late, but the child isn't even going to survive, so why put her body through that trauma, along with her mind.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6639673.stm

She won the right to an abortion. Take that you backward religious fucks! Yes I mean that. The only reason it was opposed was due to outdated religious types who do not represent the majority of Ireland anymore.

Oh thank the gods! I'm so glad. The child was going to die anyway, and this way she WON'T be going through the discomfort of pregnancy and the agony of labour only to have her child die within hours. Pro-choice for the win!

Im against abortion. I think that no one in this world is an accident and that we all have purposes why we're born. But thats just my opinion =]

Even those like the child with half it's head missing that will not survive being born?

Pray tell what purpose could that have?

I dont know what their purposes are but I do know that reason why some of the babies are born are like that is because their mom didnt take good care of themselves while they were inside their mommy's womb.

Well that just shows complete lack of understanding. These things can occur for no reason at all. Some people who take perfectly good care of themselves have this happen. So that completely disproves your point there.

So once again, the purpose for a child being conceived that cannot even be born is what?

I dont know what everyone's purposes are. But I just believe that everyone in this world has a purpose and thats it.

Okay, think about what you're typing before you post it. This child won't survive long after birth. Do you HONESTLY believe that forcing the mother to carry it to term and go through the agony of labour actually has a purpose aside from causing pain and suffering?

Do you know anything about the formation of the child? Millions of children are born with various congenital ailments, and many are NOT due to the mother not taking care of herself. Do you even have anything approaching a clue about that? If not, and you're just assuming, then I'd have say that you don't have a clue. At all.

Im not just talking about mom's who have baby problems etc. Im also talking about young females who are pregnant.

I dont know anything about babies because I've never been a mother. But my aunt had a baby and the baby died after like 5 days because of hepatitis (sp?) and my aunt admitted that its probably because of the dirty food she ate. And some babies are born autistics because their mom probably drank medicines while they were in their mom's wombs. But Im not judging any mom about what I stated, Im sorry if that sounded that way.

But anyways Im not going to argue about this. I just stated my opinion.

You don't get Hepatitis from dirty food, far as I know it's transmitted through the blood. Does your aunt herself have Hepatitis? And the causes for Autism are as yet unknown, but I have NEVER heard anything about it being from medicine the mother had. And do you mean medicine she took for an illness? Because you're making it sound like you mean in a recreational way from your post. You just don't sound very well informed at all.

Im going to admit, I dont really know that exact details etc. thats just what I heard.

The doctor said that the baby have hepatitis cause it turned yellow.. and you get hepatitis from dirty foods, like the germs/viruses in them.

therrah you have clearly shown that while you don't agree with abortions your reasons are based on complete rubbish. I suggest you think in future and check your facts before posting things that there is absolutely no evidence for.

As for turning yellow, ever hear of jaundice? Dodgy kidneys and liver? Those all cause people to "turn yellow". Just stop posting, you sound idiotic.

Yes, I wasnt sure about the sickness/how babies turned out sick whatsoever. But what I just said and believe in, is that I think everyone has a purpose in this world. nuff said.

And yes, I have heard of jaundice. I had it when I was a baby. I'll stop posting, but I dont think its necessary for you tell me that I sound idiotic.

No, that's not actually enough said. You want to particpate in a discussion you need to back your points up, which is not what you've done at all. A purpose no more explains your views against abortion any more then saying "well X religion says so". That's not how life works.

As for telling people if they sound idiotic, I call it as I see it. I don't sugar coat, I don't tip toe around it. Your comments show complete lack of knowledge about the points you raised. Raising a point when you clearly know nothing about it is idiotic. Hence my comment.

Hepatitis C is passed on through blood, here's the link http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/fact.htm, Hepatitis A is passed on by eating food contaminated with feces of someone with Hepatis A and B is trasnmitted by blood and or sex. Sorry, I wasn't trying to nitpick, I wanted to know for sure too. But if that's how your aunt's baby got it, then your aunt is probably also infected.

On the subject on Autism, here's what I found:"Scientists aren’t certain what causes autism, but it’s likely that both genetics and environment play a role. Researchers have identified a number of genes associated with the disorder. Studies of people with autism have found irregularities in several regions of the brain. Other studies suggest that people with autism have abnormal levels of serotonin or other neurotransmitters in the brain. These abnormalities suggest that autism could result from the disruption of normal brain development early in fetal development caused by defects in genes that control brain growth and that regulate how neurons communicate with each other. While these findings are intriguing, they are preliminary and require further study. The theory that parental practices are responsible for autism has now been disproved."
From this link http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm

Again, not trying to nitpick, I was curious myself. Says nothing about medicine ingested by the mother though. That said, the cause isn't proved yet.

I'm not saying don't post, but post FACT, not things you assume.

^Thanks for telling me those in a diplomatic way. Very sorry for posting things that I dont know 100%.

If you're going to post facts, you need to know for sure. There may be some people who will just take it at face value. I wasn't 100% if you were right, so I looked. Just think before you post, okay?

Okay, thanks and Im very sorry too.

But if you're aborted then you're not born, are you? I think you were looking for conceived. Either way, are you against it in ALL cases? It's certainly not fair to ask a woman who was raped to carry her child to term. Or as Robb and Suzy mentioned, women who are carrying children who are destined to die anyway.

Either way, I've always been for abortion. I believe that choice should be out there for women. I'm glad it's there for me, especially after my own stupidity lead me to have a pregnancy scare of my own.

Yeah, that's very true. Aborted babies are never born to start with. But destiny is a flimsy reason to aruge, some believe in it, and some don't. The Greeks believed that your destiny is decided before you are even born and nothing can change it, not even the gods. So if that's the case, if a baby is aborted it was destined to die anyway. Right? It's a tough one.

No offence to the Greeks but geez.. why would you be destined to die 3 hours after your birth? Destiny is crap anyway, YOU make your own destiny, not some man in the sky. It's great that your government gave that girl the right to an abortion, but I still can't grasp why they would try to stop her. Obviously I don't know anything about your laws, care to explain?

In Ireland, abortion is still illegal, so lots of girls will go over to England to get an abortion there, where it is legal. Now, I think some people will ask what your purpose is over there, and I know a lot of pro-life groups here are trying to stop that from happening and make it impossible for people to go over to England to get an abortion.

There were efforts to try and legalise it over here a while back, but it failed, unfortunately.

I really hate the fact that pro-life people are so narrow minded. I mean Jesus Christ the poor baby was going to die shortly after, they really have no sympathy for the mother or the baby.

well not even just that.. I think that the choice should just be out there. I sometimes wonder why pro-lifers can't grasp the concept of just not having an abortion if you don't agree with it.

When I had my scare, I thought my life was going to go down the shitter. I'm in a good school, on a scholarship and in a good program. When I get myself together and I'm married, then I'd want to have kids.. because I'd be able to support and care for them properly. Right now that's just not the case.

I don't like the fact that someone can tell me that I don't have a choice in what happens in my body and my life.

You should have a right to choose whats best for your body- your life. No one should be able to dictate the way your life will end up- for many of these babies, in a poor home with one parent. (Yes, I do know I'm generalising) or the parents- unhappy about losing their chance to become something better. I know mothers who even despise their children for ruining their life dreams, for leading them to stay in unhappy, unhealthy marriages. The choice should be yours not some narrow minded twits.