Sorry, your right.. Ive just seen abit of it in my family.. my cousin got married and he became a father of two.. he want ready for the responsibility and so they got divorced and now his ex wife is a nervous wreck.. not saying that happens to everyone but yeh...

I'll be quiet now.

You didn't read what I said correctly. Both should voice thier feelings about what they want. And if they are in a relationship the father rightfully deserves a say, it's his child too. In the end the mother cannot be forced to go through with the pregnancy if thats not what she wants. I already said that. But you cannot honestly say that the mother should do whatever she want's and not even listen to how the father feels. Just because hes not the mother of the child doesn't mean he wouldn't care if it was aborted.
Let's use an example. You're a married couple, and have been for 12 years. You have one son, 8 years old. One day he gets hit by a car, when rushed to the hospital the doctors find he's brain dead. The mother wants to cut off life support, yet the father want's to keep him alive. Reasoning for thier decisions doesn't matter. What matters is they both deserve a say in what happens to thier child. The mother doesn't get to do whatever she want's just because she gave birth to him, although in the end, her decision may be the final one, his feelings have to be put into consideration.

That situation is different because both parents are equally affected by the outcome.

Both parents are NOT equally affected by a pregnancy or an abortion.

It all depends on the person and couple. Many woman couldn't care less about having an abortion, it could be thier means of birth control. Many men will feel so hurt and upset that they lost thier first child because the mother of the child wouldn't give him the time of day to voice his opinions and he feels like he didn't even get a say, like his feelings don't have importance.
Let's use the same example except change it a tad. Your the mother. You and your husband got a divorce almost immediatly after the birth of your son. Your ex-husband gained custody and for whatever reasons you didn't see your son often. Your son gets hit by a car, brain dead, on life support. You want want your son to be kept alive, and your ex-husband wants him to be cut off life support. The situation is remotley the same, but roles reversed. You don't have a say what so ever. The father has custody it's his decision. He says you won't feel as much pain because you haven't spent the last 8 years with him, living with him and raising him. Just like a mother saying the father doesn't have a say because it's her womb the child is growing in and the connection she feels for the baby is stronger. The connection is strong, but it goes without saying the father too has a strong connection in cases, it's his child.

I have never said the man should tell the woman what to do. I have just repeatedly said the man DESERVES say, in many cases he doesn't, but it is important he gets one. It seems like your just trying to fight with me in saying I said the man gets all the say and is affected just as much. I know from experience what it feels like, and I know how the father of my baby feels. It isnt the same amount of pain, but it's a pain I won't be able to understand because I'm not him, just as he's not me. Just because you aren't the mother doesn't mean your incapable of feeling pain.

You can't compare a developing fetus with a child that has been in the world, and has had sentience. I realise saying that is opening a can of worms, but I don't think you can compare the situations.

And everyone's pain is relative.

abortion is murder when women say well it's my body no it isnt it's god's body cus he made it for you and it's kinda funny that epople that support abortion werent aborted

What ? What are you talking about.

No, I'm disagreeing with you right there. It's the woman's body. Even if you believe in a higher power, we were given life etc, so it is ours, and our choice. If it was made for us, it's ours.

The dictionary definitions of sentience, awareness, and consciousness seem simply refer to each other quicker than those of any given prepositions, so we end up going with some more technical definition of "That thing has sensory organs", and with it somehow being morally acceptable to kill things before it's capable of noticing it happening to them.

I perceive the main differences to be location, level of development (sort of), feeding method (in the general case), and where waste products intermediately go.

I wasn't so much trying to relate the situations as much I was trying to put a woman in a position where she has no say in her childs life/death, much like people are saying a man doesn't deserve a say in thier childs life. It was more of, how would you feel if you didn't have a say? Then trying to make a person understand a father could very well feel the same way. I've said many times but I'll say it agian. I never said the man has the final decision. He doesn't. But he has a right to voice his opinion, IF there is a relationship.
And since people continously bring up the fact the father shouldn't always have a say because they can just screw off after the birth, they must not obviously realise a woman can do the same. The woman isn't tied to the child, she can run off and abandon the child just as the father can do.


I'm not religious even though I was baptised in the catholic faith. I more so believe that although a higher power may have created you, and it may have given you life but it's your choice what you do with it.

Edited by FadedCaliGirlie...... *Graphic Images*

As a guess...

Welcome to Bannedville. Population: you.

Definatly, DONT post pictures. You can have an opinion, that what this is for, but showing pictures isn't voicing an opinion at all.
The least you could have done was post the LINK with the pictures and give a warning of what they show.

She's banned. Permanently.

eeeek. just curious, can someone tell me what the pics were of (in an ungraphic way)

lyn i read your post about your experience with abortion and i am so so sorry you had to deal with it and were coerced into it. it sounded like a absolutely horrible experience. one of my best friends recently just confided in me and told me that when she was 15, she got an abortion because she was living in china with her grandparents (and her parents were here in the US) and she had no way of raising this child. she also said adoption is very difficult in china because it is rare for a chinese baby to be adopted in china, most of the time they are adopted to other countries and she said she could never handle that. im not so sure i support her decision to get an abortion, but i completely understand her reasoning. i guess i would have to say im prochoice because there are so many situations in which having a child is just not the right thng to do. cases such as rape, a mother whos addicted to hardcore drugs and living on the streets... etc. but i would have to say, if it is possible for the baby to be born and then adopted it is a much better option

i am extremely against abortion becoming illegal. i think no man (no offense guys) should tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her own body. its different if hes the father of her baby but for george bush to say he wants it to be a law i think is completely wrong.

Aborted Fetuses.

Something that broke the rules here on AIMGirl. They weren't links either. just BOOM intesne images that aren't really appropriate for anyone, let alone teen girls on a web site.

ah thats horrible. if she really wanted to show it she shoulda had a link with a warning. oh well

anyways after reading this topic, it inspired me to search the internet more about abortions. i found this really sad flash movie. its a cartoon from albino black sheep. its not graphic but its pretty sad.

AWWWW that was sad

I personally think abortion is wrong! If they wanna have sex they should be ready for responsibility and i dont really think that teens dont know you can get pregnant from sex!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4dzE2aC6nI...ted&search= here is a link to a video...it is VERY graphic DONT watch if you have a weak stomach or are sensitive...

Eyezofangel reincarnate?

No, not really, at least this person is hiding it behind a link so we get a choice.

no eyezofangel just put the pics up without a warning or anything, so when u came to view the topic, BAM. but this at least has a warning and whatnot. its sad && graphic but its the truth. it still doesnt sway me to agree or disagree with abortion more though... i still feel like it's the mother's (or both parent's ) choice.

It's not her, don't worry.

wait just a quick off topic question for one of the mods. is amanda (eyezofangel) banned and gone for good? or just like suspended?

She is gone for good. Back on topic if you please.

After watching the video, personally I don't think it's quite the best video or way to show someone to 'persuade' them (as they say in the beginning the video was made to persuade) into becomming pro-life. Personally if you are going to persuade someone into becoming pro-life you should put information into a video not just show various images of mostly 5+ month babies. Most abortions don't take place after 20 weeks because that's when people ae refused abortions, and at 20 weeks a baby would not be that big.
I am not just saying this because of my situation but I am saying it because you cannot 'persuade' someone into being pro-life by showing various images of aborted babies. You should provide information. Or like the video I saw in grade 12 world religions, an ultrasound video of an abortion being done. It was informative, they showed a typical abortion, done at the typical time in a pregnancy when the procedure is being done.

What many people don't relise is that many people have abortions due to birth defects or future heath concerns of the baby. Now with modern technology you can tell in advance if your baby is going to have hep b, spina bifida, down syndrome and other mental disabilities, heart defects, and you can even tell in some cases if your baby will live for long after birth. These tests are done usually within the first trimester, so time is given for the woman to have abortions if nessasary. If you live in the united states where you don't have health care coverage, having a baby with any of those defects would be expensive, and most people could not afford the health care the child needed.
Personally although I would never get another abortion regardless of defects, I can fully understand how someone would not want to raise a child who for example was going to have Down syndrome, now when I say that I don't mean to cause offence. My aunt has down syndrome and I have worked with children with down syndrome, it is hard for both the child whom has down syndrome and the family. My family has been through a lot involving my aunt, my aunt is severly depressed and it is hard to communicate with her most times(Not all children with down syndrome are like this though mind you) . The worst thing is she knows she is different, and lets be honest, not everyone is respectful to those born with disabilities. Actually my other aunt is a teacher at a public school and she currently works with children with disabilities both mental and learning. When she was pregnant with her second child the doctors thought he had the extra chromosome 21 which causes down syndrome, and my aunt was considering abortion due to what she knows about her little sister and what she has gone through. Further tests were done and it turns out my little cousin was perfectly fine and he is now a healthy 4 year old boy. Many people with donw syndrome don't have a long full life either, many people born with down syndrome suffer from heart problems as they get older, or are sometimes born with these problems at birth along with other defects which usually can be fixed, but still impact the childs life.

The point is, you cannot make a video supporting pro life if you are unwilling to give informative facts about abortion along with the pictures, the best type of video to show about abortion is the one that shows both sides, that promotes pro-choice. Then a persons positions of abortion can be formed with knowledge about the subject not just 'The pictures are so disturbing, I dont agree with abortion, look at what they do to babies'. You cannot have a certian position without supporting why you feel that way. Sure, it's a baby I realise many people consider it a baby not a 'fetus'. But I also understand how some just cannot support a child at 16 who cannot afford proper health care for the child, or who will be kicked out by her parents if they found out, or who is addicted to drugs, or was raped, etc.
Also don't say 'they shouldn't have had sex if they weren't ready for a child' this is true, sex is a big thing, but it doesn't mean girls who have abortions weren't safe about it. Such as being on birth contol, using a condom or other methods of birth contol. Or what if the girl who 'shouldnt be having sex if she isnt ready' is 30? I think she is probley ready. But it doesn't mean she is any more financially stable than a 16 year old.

ok well, first off i didn't post the video on here to "persuade" people to go pro-life, thats just what the video said, sorry i didn't know how to take that part of the video out. secondly, they didn't just show "older" aborted fetuses, they showed the parts the took from the younger ones and the older ones they showed the whole body. and they do give abortions up to 6 months, not so much legal but some doctors will allow it. now i can understand why a mother would want to have an abortion in the case of rape, or if it's not going to live long after the birth, but other than that i still don't believe that abortion is right, and i'm not trying to force my opinion onto anyone. i'm just stating it like everyone else. if you would like i will gladly go and find an informative video if it'll make you happy.

Having an abortion when you're six months is stupid and dangerous to the mother, doctors who would allow that are rare. Videos of an unloved and neglected child who was an unwanted pregnancy is far sadder than that.

And I am sick to death of people saying "if you aren't ready for kids don't have sex" because that's complete bullshit, and I'm getting tired of saying that. What should be said is "if you aren't ready for kids pracitce safe sex". I am in no way ready for kids, in fact I hate kids, but I'm sexually active, I just practice safe sex. Saying things like "you should be prepared for the consequences" is just stupid.

But sometimes contraception fails, and most people wouldn't consider an abortion to be the easy way out or another contracpetive, because it's not.

well let me put it this way then, safe sex can fail, the only way that "safe sex" is "safe" is abstinence! and that doesn't always work either, because of the people who are rape victims. And 1.3 million babies are killed ever year (aproximately) so it must be a pretty popular choice for people. also, only 32 states require that teens have parent permission to do it. 55% of the parents never know that their teen is having an abortion either, i mean, if you're gonna do it atleast talk to your parents first. whether or not they disown you is not a factor of the issue, cause you got to tell them, since they wouldn't kick you out if you would have just had good morales, and good common sense

You want some sources for my numbers, alright I'll post the site(s) I got them from, I have no problem with that. http://abort73.com/HTML/II-A-abortion_statistics.html Go there, you'll find it, along with a lot of other facts about it.

Oh come on, when you compare those numbers to the world's population, and if that's per year, relatively speaking, it's not really a "popular" choice. And you can't say people wouldn't get kicked out, there are plenty who would be. I'm pretty sure that if I got pregnant, I would be kicked out, my parents are very concerned with the opinions of others.

I think the best way to avoid people needing abortions is to promote awareness about safe sex, rather than shoving that abstinence bullshit down peoples' throats. Many people aren't going to abstain, so if they aren't going to, they may as well know what precautions to take.

Precautions don't always work now does it? I mean I know people who didn't want children so she had her tubes tied, and the husband got a vesectomy and she still ended up pregnant and having a child, so not even that works. And like everyone else has said, if the teens want to have sex so bad, even with the precautions they may take, they should know it's a possiblity they will get pregnant, but most like to ignore that fact because they think sex is so much fun! I also wasn't shoving anything down anyone's throat, all i said was that it's the ONLY 100% effective way NOT to get pregnant.

But as I was saying, statistics prove that an awful lot of people aren't going to abstain. Worse still are the ones who believe the withdrawl method works, because they don't know about condoms. You'd be amazed how many people I've come across believe it works, especially on here.

I am 100% against abortion
try ADOPTION, there are people out there who WANT a child so terribly, but sadly are in-capable of conceiving(sp?) And yet young teenagers who have made a bad choice and ACCIDENTALLY ended up with a child are rushing to get them KILLED. In my mind abortion is equal to murder
sorry if you disagree but there is NO way to justify taking the life of something so terrific

Yes, terrific, because that 12 year old who was raped by her uncle/father/neighbour deserves to have her life at risk by trying to carry to term a child that her body cannot support.......

As you have proven both here and in the Suicide topic you clearly refuse to consider circumstances. I'm glad people like you are the minority and not in any position to do anything.

I think it definitely isn't something to be taken lightly. I don't know if I could see myself ever having one, but then no one knows how they'll react to situations. It should NEVER be considered as the "easy way out".

Sure, new life is great, but if that new life will kill or destroy the life of the mother, you have to reconsider.

As the majority of people here, I believe, I am against abortion, but don't condemn it when there is no other way out.

If you we're raped, and got pregnant, or the measures you took during the sexual act didn't protect you enough, abortion is a solution. But if you're making sex from left to right, for pleasure and fun, of boredom or any other thing like that, without protecting yourself, and after hearing you are pregnant (waw, big surprise there, huh?) wanting to ditch the kid - now that pisses me off!
The kid has no guilt whatsoever, and he deserves life as we know it!
^of course, if the girl is 13, and she's not able to bear a child, that's a different story. but if we take it like that, a different story would be why she's freaking f.ucking like crazy at 13, right? ... what goes around, comes around... (and no. I'm not quoting Justin Timberlake. Ph-lease.)

Im pro-choice.

For several reason, but ill just mention 2:

1.- Less kids living in the street having misserable lives
2.- Giving a baby in adoption doesnt guarantee that the family that adopts them will love them and treat the baby right, there are tons of people who pretend they r good and loving families but the truth is that they are kid dealers or drug dealers and use the kids for many purpouses like infant pornoraphy an so on

what i think about abortion... why get it? because you can`t afford to take care of the baby?? why is that? if you can afford getting an abortion then you can obviously afford taking care of the baby. and if you don`t have a condom or if the guy doesn`t wear a condom then that`s your fault. you shouldn`t do it in the first place knowing what might happen.

but the fact that you were raped. that really sucks. abortion would be a good thing for you because you of the babies daddy. =S

According the the Feminist Women's Health Center, abortion is actually rather cheap:


The cost of raising a child born in 2007 into the cheapest possible situation until the age of 18 is approximately $213,696. (source: http://www.babycenter.com/costofchild/).

So having an abortion is about 42 times cheaper than raising a child until the age of 18.

As someone who did use protection and who could afford a baby - there ARE reasons that people get abortions. In fact, guess what, I almost got one. I think until you've been in a situation like that (pregnancy) there is no room to talk about what you would do - because you DONT KNOW. I NEVER thought I would ever even CONSIDER abortion, but I did. I didn't get one in the end, but I was very close. There are some people who go through pregnancy and still are pro-life, from what I've seen most of these were people who planned the pregnancy. Many who didn't plan it understand how scared you get and how torn you are at what you should do.

ETA:
I also would like to add that Alex is VERY pro-life rather than pro-choice and he had said he would drive me to get it and pay for it if that was what I wanted. Actually being IN the situation changes EVERYTHING.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Charmed Chinka. I think you will find, if you have at least half a brain that getting an abortion is significantly cheaper than raising a child. Besides that, there's a hell of a lot more to it than money. What if you just aren't ready? Like Christi said, you just don't know how you'll react to it.

It's not a case of "well it's your own fault", you can't USE a human life to punish someone for the rest of your life, that's just sick.

Seriously! I know women who didn't get an abortion because they are "pro-life" and now resent their child. They basically HATE their children for taking away their youth. That is NOT fair for the child. Yes, there is adoption - but sometimes going through the entire pregnancy is NOT an option. Plenty of people also get pregnant while using birth control (*raises hand* - I took mine religiously and I have a son) so sometimes unplanned pregnancy happens even when the person DID protect themselves.

To sum up your paragraph, though others have already, bullshit. Complete bullshit. Why is it your fault, ie the girls, if they guy doesn't have a condom. Takes two to have sex (or more) so it is everyone who is involveds fault. Also condoms and the pill can fail. Does that mean we should all stop having sex? I think not.

Dear god I HOPE not - I like my sex!

As do I and my wife, and lots of other people too.

I shudder at the thought of having to stop having sex!

I will say though that if you ever go out on the pull, put a condom or two in your bag, regardless of if you're a guy or a girl. Thus it doesn't matter who you pull, you've always got a condom to use.

Oh gods I hope not. I carry condoms, and I'm a girl. I don't actually need them right now, but I carry them anyway. Why? Because I think it's the responsibility of both to take precautions. You can't turn around and only expect the guy to carry them. That's utter bullshit. I know you're scared of people thinking badly of you, but mine fell out of my bag in front of my mother, you get over these things!

Thats true enough - your Mother would rather you were protected I'm sure.

Abortion shouldn't be seen as emergency contraception. However I won't ever put my name to something outlawing abortion. I myself am pro-choice. I would choose NOT to have one. But if someone else wants to then Im sure as hell not going to stop them. I truely believe in somecases it is a parenting decision. For Instance: I am pregnant and I cannot afford to support my child and myself and give them everything that I would like to give them, we would not live a decent life, they would have no father.

That to me PERSONALLY doesn't make it right, however that doesnt make me right either. I don't agree with some parenting issues but thats the parents choice not mine. So as much as personally I wouldn't do it, I won't ever dictate to another woman or couple what they have to do. I can only see that preventing women from having abortions would lead to more deaths due to illegal abortions where both mother and baby die. Thats just not worth it, in these cases I have to say that I value the mothers life more than the baby. Although this is not how I would feel for myself.

It all depends on your view of when life begins, to me its conception. To others its 12 weeks of pregnancy to others the baby isn't viable until 24 weeks, to others not until its born and does not require the mother to survive (i.e anyone can feed and change a baby).

So in short I wuldnt have an abortion, but who am I to dictate the choices of other people? No one.