Sex evolved to be pleasurable. Yes the main point is procreation, but just because Christians feel it should not occur before marriage does not mean everyone else agrees.

Didnt say they did.I was correcting you.

But your correction was wrong, sex has been "fun" as you put it, for as long as civilization has been around. Even early cave paintings and artwork depicted sex as something enjoyable, so it's not recent.

I mean that the main purpose was to reproduce.

Oh indeed, but that was because we evolved, like thousands of other species to reproduce via sex. Just because it is for that purpose, does not mean it should only be for that and nothing else.

Whatever, the point is that abortion is bad and people shouldn't do it.

Not everything can be defined as good and bad, or black and white. Abortion is bad, yes, but it is necessary. If the population keeps on growing at this rate, how are we going to house the masses being born? Chop down the rain forest for new homes and you get unclean oxygen to breath. Put them all up for adoption and it reduces the chance of the kid actually being adopted.

Good and Bad are merely based on perspective. Necessity, however, is based on facts and opinions. The real solution to an uncontrollable population is never going to be allowing abortion, just because it is not enough. I think the solution lies with my cousin, who has four children (I think, I've lost count already), and 3 brothers. Each of these children are likely to grow up, and have some amount of children, causing the size of the family to increase very rapidly. I don't think they want to abort, but the population is still rising at a weird rate.
Those who have heard of "chavs" (aka Britain's new ruling class) may know that the female is practically considered infertile if she hasn't had children by the age of 20. Screw sex before marriage, they'd take first proposal they get!

Also, sex isn't just for children. Some do it for pleasure, some even do it for spiritual reasons (guess how far in the book I am now, Robb).

I'd imagine she is recalling walking in on the ceremony.

In very specific detail, no less. I managed to get through over 20 chapters last night. Saturday nights at Uni can be surprisingly dull.

everybody deserves a chance at life

I always avoid abortion discussions. They seem so complicated, when to me it all boils down to one very basic questions.

Does life begin at birth, conception, or somewhere in between?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I can't take a stance in the debate. Prove one way or the other and it'll give me the "right" stance on abortion. All these other arguments are just making noise.

Scientifically life begins when your in the moms stomach.Cause technically your alive right?But emotionally its different for each person.

Stomach? What the hell? Conception has nothing to do with the stomach, it's the womb. Hell get your facts straight.

omg you knew what I meant so stop griping.

^^ yeah. like when somebody is pregnant and they are talking to their little 2 year old, they arent like "look, theres a baby in mommys womb" she says its in her stomach. lol

Well, we aren't quite two years old, are we?

She was giving an example.Im sorry I misssaid it WOMB not stomach.

I'm sorry for being so grouchy. Just had one of those bad days where you want to curl up and stay in bed. I hate being ill.

Its apologized and forgiven.

I only agree with abortion if you are really young (15 or younger) and getting pregnant because you guys took that big decision thinking you are mature, to have sex. But if you are ready or able to have a baby at the age any older than 16 or something then there is no reason for abortion. I think of it that way.

I dont agree with it because of my faith.But I think its pretty damn ridiculous that anyone under 15 would think their mature.

I don't agree with abortion. At all. But the reason I am saying that because most people get pregnant before the age of 16. I swear, people these days think they are so mature for sex and everything and should be doing it because everybody else is doing it. Well don't blame anybody but yourself if you get pregnant. If you are before 16 years, just go ahead with abortion if you cannot handle it, because I don't think your mother wouldn't even want to take care of your child. That's why you would do abortion and learn from that experience of being pregnant and think twice before having sex again. If anybody 17 or older should be able to handle having a child, no reason to do abortion, because anyways you are almost out of school, you just couldn't wait to have sex and then get pregnant, right? So there is no reason to do abortion. Yay! ._.;

I'd question what magical change happens between 16 and 17 to suddenly make you more mature and able to handle a child.

Well... in England you get to have a driving licence at about 17... [/opening for too much innuendo for brain to handle]

Not saying that people at the age of 16 and 17 are mature, but most tend to be around that age. But I can be wrong, but still.

You forget that to force people at the ages of 16 and 17 to have the children could ruin both their lives and the lives of their children. First of all, most people who have kids at 16/17 don't even finish high school. And if you don't finish that, you're automatically fucked. Second, if you have the kid and try to take care of it, you will probably not be going to college. Which means that you won't be getting any work that's better than the manager of your local Jack 'n the Box. Which means you're still fucked and so is your kid. This defense that if you're sixteen to seventeen means that you should be punished is stupid, because that also punishes the child. Good job, you've created another kid that will probably get pregnant/get their girlfriend pregnant at 17.

exactly

I just wanted to post the different types of abortion. (I found this in my friends biology book)


Suction method- used during the first 3 months og the child's development. In this method, a tube connected to a suction device is instered into the mother's womb. the force created by the device tears the childs body apart and draws the pieces into the tube and into a container for disposal.

Dialtion and curettage method- also used in the first 3 months of development. this method involves using a loop-shaped knife to scrape the womb, severing the childs attachment to the mother. the babys body is often cut into small pieces, and the had may be crushed to fit through the opening of the womb.

Dialiation and evacuation method- in this method a pair of forceps is instered into the mothers womb, where they are used to dismember the child and drag the parts out of the womb through the birth canal. the tiny parts are often reassembled to ensure that none of the child remains are left in the womb.

salt poisoning- using a long needle, they inject a sal solution into the amniotic sac. this concentrated salt solution is swallowed and inhaled by the child, causing hemorraging, shock and often painful burning of the sking. the child thrashes about as it slowly dies. usually within an hour and a half. the dead chld is then delivered though the birth canal within 2-3 days

hysterotomy abortion- the child is surgically removed from the womb but is laid aside to die from neglect. (if you think about it, the same medical team would be working around the clock to save this baby if it was wanted and was born prematurely)

partial birth abortion- the child is delivered alive through the birth canal just as in a normal live birth, except that he is delivered feet first. when all if his body except his head is outside the mother, the child is then killed by punctering the base of the skull and using a suction device to remove his brain, collapsing the skull so that the head can fit more conveniently through the opening of the birth canal.

was it a 'pro-life' biology book or did you change some of the words slightly?

Abortion is a good thing in some cases. Ill bet if someone that called it baby killing was in a situation where they werent ready to be a mother, they would see tis beauty in a new light.

i typed it exactly how it was in the book

Even this part - "(if you think about it, the same medical team would be working around the clock to save this baby if it was wanted and was born prematurely)"?

yeah. even that part

Biology books have certainly changed since I was at school. Back when I was at high school we didn't even discuss abortion, let alone have it in biology books.

Times change, things get updated.

I think in some cases abortion can be considered murder. But in others it can be the only way out.

If you're old enough to make the desicion of whether or not to have sex you should be old enough to except responsibilities (sp?) and deal with the consequences of not using proper protection.

But on he other hand if you were a victim of rape and became pregnant I don't think you would want to be pregannt with the child of the man who do that to you and abortion may seem like the only option.

Sure, everyone should have a chance at life, but sometimes when a child is nearing the end of their 16th year in the adoption centre (along with all the other unwanted children, and children who were wanted, until the parents themselves died prematurely instead), waiting to eventually be booted out and left with no idea what to do, they begin to pray that something came and killed them, because suicide is morally wrong too.

What do you define as a chance at life? If it's being able to do something worthwhile, then there's no point in preventing them from being born if they're just going to spend the best part of their childhood among other unwanted children. If it's just breathing and moving and stuff, then my evaluation of the sanctity of life is approximately bugger all, everything else might as well die too.

I mean that everybody deserves a chance to live and see what they can do. who knows, maybe one of the babies that was killed could of dont something to make this country better

Perhaps, but that is the whole "What if", and you can't go asking that about everything. Some people just do not want children, or are too young. They fall pregnant, and do not want to have the child. Hence abortion. Roe vs Wade clearly made it legal in the US. The rest of the world is slowly considering it themselves. You do not have to agree with it, but it is not your choice if others can or cannot, that is their choice to make.

well, if I had my choice... abortion would be 100% illegal

If I had my choice, Christianity would be illegal. We don't all get what we want.

I am pro-choice. I think that it is a women's right to choose what she does with her body. And like someone said, an embryo is just a group of cells.
People claim that if you want to have sex you should deal with the consequences. Though in most part - in the way of stds and whatnot - is true, but I disagree in the way of pregnancy. I mean, if you're going to have sex, have safe sex, right? There is no 100% way of preventing slip ups. Condoms break, birth control doesn't always work. And there's also the fact that a woman may not be able to handle a baby, what's she supposed to do then? Giving it up for adoption? What if its not a good family, I mean she has all those decisions to make. Personally, I could never have the baby and then give it up. On the other hand, if you have an abortion, you don't know that baby, you don't get attached to it.

Its a simple choice: If you don't want one, don't get one. There's really no way to prevent people from getting abortions, even if they were illegal, back alleys...

I believe everybody deserves a chance to have a life, so that they actually can do something, rather than just have nothing beyond great potential. Who knows? Maybe the greatest diplomatic mind that could ever have existed spent their entire life mugging people so they could eat. I call that just as much a waste as simply killing them before that. Life may well be precious, that just means you shouldn't cheapen it by having people lead worthless existences.

I am totally against abortion. You had the child it's your fault. This girl I know who is pregant told her teach she didn't think it was right to have abortion it was her fault she got pregnant and she will go through it. It's natural to have babies. I am sure WAY back who knows when, people couldn't have abortion and they had to deal with it. Even if it causes thier own death.

So a 14 year old should have to try and be a mother even though she may be in no way capable of doing so, possibly destroying her life and that of her child in the process?

What about if someone is raped? Should they have to have the child?
What about if the pregnancy could cause terminal harm to the mother? Should she try and have the child even though it may kill her?

As you see it's not black and white I'm afraid, it's a very grey area depending on a large number of factors. Roe Vs Wade gave the right of choice to people. If you disagree with it, fair enough, do not stop others having their right to choose.

I personally am neither for, nor against abortion. It is an individuals choice, not mine. Let them choose.

those are the only reasons that some should have an abortion. If a 14 year old gets preg it all comes down to her parents, where were they when she was out having sex? My best friend had got preg at 15 and had her baby at 16, she looked at every option she could while she was expecting. Now that she has logan she is so happy she didnt chose adoption or abortion.She did it though, she got through high school and maintaned a job and now is attending college.

So the parents are to blame if their child is sexually active? They are to stalk their childs every move? No, they can tell their child not to have sex, or if they are going to, at least use contreception. A child should not have a child. The whole "Well they shouldn't have sex unless they are mature enough to deal with a child" doesn't work, as we have seen many a time.

Children should not be parents. Also I know some people that do not want kids either, and she got pregnant when the condom split, so she went and had an abortion. That was her choice to make, as she herself does not want children. You can not force those that do not want children to have them. Abortion gives them a way out.

Once again I put forward; Would you force someone who does not want a child to have one just because they fell pregnant? Would you force someone to raise something that they never wanted and possibly resent? Would you force a 14 year old to give up their life to raise a child they should never have had, thus possibly destroying the 14 year olds life and also possibly the baby's?

It is not as simple as you make out, and until you have been in a position yourself you really cannot make comment. You can have your opinions, but you cannot really know each case.

I believe this where the Church of England applies "the lesser of two evils". Unfortunately, while moral issues aren't black and white, I'm pretty sure a little ignorance obscures one's perspective just enough to make it so.

Did you know that dolphins (the most intelligent being known to us so far) have sex for pleasure too? Sex for pleasure is not as evil as one may think, unless dolphins are evil.

And if she doesn't want it, and no one else is likely to want it, why make it live unwanted? Think of the child, people!

I thought you knew part of Christian history was destroying womankind.

I know it has been, most religions seem to enjoy oppressing women to a degree. Go figure why.